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National Council of Churches Session won't support NCC funding December 14, 2001 I have just read the recent article concerning the financial plight of the NCC, including the remarks by John Detterick. I have been deeply involved in the stewardship efforts and the budget process of my local church of some 800 members for more than 25 years. I can tell you that the session and the congregation of my church will not support the General Assembly with its funds as long as the GA continues to blow funds on such non- evangelical activities as the NCC. The NCC and WCC are just examples of how our congregation views the liberal activities which are supported by the GA Council. It is a real offense to our historic connectionalism and our Reformed doctrine to be so at odds with the larger church. But I can assure all concerned that the funds will not be available for true evangelism as long as the council insists on squandering money on such far out projects as the NCC. Robert B. Edwards First Presbyterian Church Douglasville, Ga. Not one more dime for the NCC December 14, 2001 We're counting on you to let us know immediately if the Presbyterian Church USA gives one more penny, in any form, to this politicized organization, the National Council of Churches. Don't even think it wouldn't happen. Dan Robertson First Presbyterian Reinbeck, Iowa
December 4, 2000 Let's hope that the NCC folds for good. It is time for it to go and never come back. The same could be said for the WCC also. Jack W. Fox 'What did you expect' from leaders? Re: Council reneges on NCC funding requirement, approves $400,000 October 11, 2000 Rev. Stephen H. Janssen's Oct. 2 letter expresses many of my own feelings, along with perhaps 10 other letters I've read here concerning the flip-flop of the GAC on additional funding for the NCC. I suspect you would have received many more letters except for two reasons:
Rance Hixson, Elder First Presbyterian Church Hiawatha, KS What does pickle boycott have to do with salvation? Re: NCC takes aim at small-town company noted for generosity October 6, 2000 The General Assembly Council wants to send money to help bail out an organization [National Council of Churches] that wants to boycott a pickle firm? There is something wrong with this picture. I fail to see how this action helps to spread the Gospel. Paul Gerber Massillon, OH I'll buy, not boycott, the pickles Re: NCC takes aim at small-town company noted for generosity October 6, 2000 Nonsense! Next time I am in North Carolina I will be sure to buy a few jars of Mount Olive pickles. Bill Clark Western NY So where do you buy them? Re: NCC takes aim at small-town company noted for generosity October 6, 2000 I'm going to be in South Carolina and will look for some Mount Olive pickles to bring home. I understand they are delicious. Joe Woods Reneging on NCC gift was predicted Re: Council reneges on NCC funding requirement, approves $400,000 October 2, 2000 I have already written to PresbyNet, on which I am an active participant, and indicated that there (and in a letter to The Presbyterian Outlook last spring), people "heard it here first" from me and others several months ago: The GAC would find a way to claim "most" or "virtually all" of their springtime conditions had been met and would release the $400,000 to the National Council of Churches. How sad that this reneging on an agreement has taken place. It seems no one has the courage of his or her convictions any longer in our denomination, at least in some of the leadership areas. I made a public pledge on PresbyNet to say nothing to my congregation and I will keep that pledge. But I also predicted there will be a firestorm from many in our churches about this. I also predicted that you good folks will take heat for reporting this breach of trust – and it appears you already are with those saying that "some groups" have agendas and that the original decision to impose conditions did not really come from the whole church. And what a supreme irony: When the recent GAC meeting says that last spring's conditions should be superceded by the General Assembly's input from July, it turns out the 212th GA supported the original conditions! One wonders: Is anyone on the GAC listening? Stephen H. Janssen, pastor Eastminster Presbyterian Church Marietta, GA GAC using deception to gain its objectives Re: Council reneges on NCC funding requirement, approves $400,000 September 26, 2000 Sadly, I am not surprised to hear the GAC has reneged on its promise to withhold NCC bailout funds until the $2 million in other firm commitments was received. I think we all knew nothing would stop the GAC from appropriating those monies to the NCC, even if it meant breaking one or more of the conditions. It seems clear the GAC only established those conditions to make a bailout seem more palatable, though they were strongly rebuffed by the laity. What this tells me is the GAC is willing to employ deception to achieve its ends. I don't even want to imagine what other lengths they're willing to go to keep the PCUSA toward the religious left. Frankly, I hope the United Methodist Church will, at least, delay their payments to force the NCC into bankruptcy. I say "delay," because it wouldn't be right for the Methodists to renege on a promise either, but something drastic needs to happen at the NCC to force it to renew itself or write its epitaph. If the NCC were a PCUSA congregation, they would have been dissolved a long time ago before being allowed to hemorrhage red ink. Mike Montgomery Atlanta Let the NCC sink in its liberal mud Re: Council reneges on NCC funding requirement, approves $400,000 September 26, 2000 Enough! Enough, enough, already! The NCC deserves no better fate than to sink in the liberal mud they have made for themselves. I as a Presbyterian elder resent my money being sent to the NCC. Jack W. Fox, elder First Presyterian Church Towanda, PA Why can't the NCC control its activities? Re: Council reneges on NCC funding requirement, approves $400,000 September 26, 2000 What does Mr. John Detterick [executive director, General Assembly Council] mean by "punishing the NCC for what they can't control?" Can't they control the fact of Robert Edgar and Joan Campbell wasting valuable time and money on the Elian Gonzalez matter? Can't they control the management of their resources? Can't they control their top executives taking expensive trips? Just what is it that they can't control? Any executive has the authority to influence and control his/her own wasteful spending. Likewise the General Assembly can control its own waste by not giving funding to irresponsible organizations. Audrey D. David Cleveland, OH Former NCC leader Castro's accomplice Re: NCC says it's NOT paying costs in Gonzalez case April 24, 2000 To the extent that this woman [Joan Campbell Brown, former general secretary of the National Council of Churches] aids, abets and embraces evil (in this case in the form of Castro's police state) she becomes part of that evil. I am deeply offended that she has any association with "Christianity." Paul Trommer Joan Campbell's role in Elian case criticized Re: NCC says it's NOT paying costs in Gonzalez case April 24, 2000 I've been aware of the tactics of the National Council of Churches for several years. The part that Joan Campbell played in this seizing of that little boy just sickens me. I would leave ANY church that gives the National Council of Churches one single cent. Betty Grogg Lake Placid, Fla. NCC demonstrates poor stewardship March 23, 2000 While I previously supported many of the efforts of the NCC I was deeply disturbed by the excesses reported in the press in the matter of the visit of Elian Gonzales' grandmothers. It was not only from The Layman that I learned of the private jet and continuous personal presence of the NCC's new president, Robert Edgar, in the events; it also was reported in The Washington Post, etc. In my mind this constitutes extraordinarily poor stewardship – mandating special scrutiny and oversight. If the NCC thought that they should participate in financing the visit the matter could have been easily arranged with a little ingenuity for well under $50,000. It was clearly for showmanship for the executives of the NCC. It is appalling that the PCUSA turned around and provided a sum of money equivalent to the cost! Audrey David Cleveland Heights, Ohio NCC's appeal for funds to help poor is sidetracked into deficit Re: NCC digs deeper into hunger/relief funds March 7, 2000 Our church has enthusiastically supported both the CROP walks and the Blanket Sunday offering as mission projects. I personally felt betrayed to find out that $4,430,000 was charged to Church World Services for "support services" and another $350,000 was required as a contribution to the NCC's Washington lobby, and that the PCUSA has through the GAC given the NCC an additional $400,000 to "bail them out." It seems to me that the NCC has lowered itself to deceitfully asking people to give money to help out the poor, the hungry, and the homeless, and then taking the blankets off their backs and the food out of their mouths to fund . . . what??? Once again, I find myself in the position of looking for a mission project that I can support, and ask others to support, where the money goes for that mission. Rev. Jack Edmisson General Assembly Council ignored the will of the people March 2, 2000 The ongoing saga with the National Council of Churches is an absolute disgrace. The bigger disgrace, though, is that the General Assembly Council of the Presbyterian Church (USA) would completely ignore the will of its members and vote additional church funds to bail out organization like the NCC. Why did the GAC (i.e. politburo) even bother to establish an opinion line knowing full well they would ignore it? We all knew from the beginning how they would vote, so why even bother with the pretense of listening to our opinions? The "pastoral letter" they penned is not the least bit reassuring that the NCC will clean up its act. The conditions they set on the bailout gift are also a joke. Personally, I believe all member communions should have been required to contribute financially in the bailout before any Presbyterian funds are released. It is also tragic to hear the NCC is now extorting money from the Church World Service. I fear this could be the beginning of the end for them. I just hope more PCUSA congregations will act to restrict funds to the NCC (and WCC for that matter). Even if they succeed in cleaning up their financial house, let's not forget the NCC's mission is limited to left wing political causes, and not the true Gospel of Christ. The new NCC leader (and former left wing Democratic representative), Bob Edgar, is truly the icing on the cake. Mike Montgomery, Atlanta, Ga. NCC's bizarre parody of Parable of the Talents March 2, 2000 The National Council of Churches Executive Board's actions in insisting that the $62,760,000 budget of the Church World Service be combined with their own debt-ridden $7,200,000 budget under the control of the NCC executive board sounds like a bizarre parody of the Lord's Parable of the Talents (Mt. 25.14-30). Church World Service has been faithfully administering the contributions entrusted to it by various individuals, congregations, and denominations for many years, caring for the needs of those in crisis. And the Lord has abundantly blessed them with greater responsibility, as the size of their budget shows. The NCC, on the other hand, has been foolishly squandering its money on things that fail to bring Christ glory, furthering an often political agenda at the expense of the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the Lord has removed His blessing from the NCC. When Church World Service bent over backward to help the fiscally irresponsible NCC, the NCC kicked Church World Service's legs out from under it, insisting on taking a greater share than that which was offered. The budgets for the Church World Service and the NCC ought to be combined – under the oversight of the Church World Service. Keeping in step with the apostle's command to "Let all things be done decently and in order," the NCC's executive board ought to be thanked for its work and dismissed. Loren J. Golden, Overland Park, Kan. Leave NCC, don't bail it out of debt February 10, 2000 I recommend we leave the NCC and continue to support Church World Service. I really don't want us to give any money to bail out NCC. Claire Abel, Elder, Centralia Presbyterian Church Why the NCC loves the PCUSA February 10, 2000 The National Council loves the Presbyterians because they have been able to count on us to continuously bail them out of their financial woes for which it should be asked: How did they get into this mess in the first place? The outgoing NCC general secretary (Joan Campbell) said it well. They are like an aging city and very irresponsible with the money they had. Anyone that can expend more than $2 million without adequate explanation should be investigated. It is indeed time for the Presbyterian Church to say goodbye to this relationship. Perhaps the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Joan Campbell should assume all responsibility for the National Council of Churches and start anew with new membership. How would the Rainbow Coalition fit into the scheme of things? Chuck Brace, Elder PCUSA's hierarchy out of touch with Bible, people Re: PCUSA posts 'articles' favoring $400,000 gift to bail out NCC January 27, 2000 The problem is that the actions of a denominational hierarchy completely out of touch with both the Word of God and the people in the pews have become the rule rather than the exception. That the Presbyterian Church (USA) "bishops" should use our money without our permission to support the NCC is no more a surprise to me than their support of nuclear freezes, unilateral disarmament, the PLO, and just about anything else that might actually support (1) Biblically based Christian morality, (2) human dignity and worth, and (3) the spread of democracy and freedom all in a very real and dangerous world (rather than in the land of make-believe so many on the left seem to inhabit). They will probably pull it off and hand over a half million or so of our money to the Castro-snugglers at the NCC. I also suspect strongly that such as ReImagining Conferences, support for terrorist groups (or anyone else hostile to the United States), redefinition of plain actions by General Assemblies, blaming crime on everyone except criminals, etc., will continue as long as these folks remain in Louisville. Rev. Garet Aldridge, Ansbach, Germany Churches have greater problems than WCC, NCC January 27, 2000 The fact that the WCC and NCC sometimes, perhaps even often, undertake actions that are somewhat divergent with the actions we would take actually demonstrates their value. They aren't supposed to be us; they are supposed to be "more," which necessarily implies "different." And the fact that organizations that large and diverse sometimes make very definite mistakes is to be expected. Such is the labor of love in the world, as we Presbyterians know only too well from our endless committee meetings! In short, they will always present easy targets for criticism, but is that constructive? Most important, I find much of the divisive efforts you folks are indulging in to be wasting the good intentions and all-too-scarce enthusiasm of our membership. Have you tried recently simply to recruit ushers? Or youth advisers? When people are talking in angry terms about issues that are always going to be with us and are unavoidable, they are not motivated to get involved in the everyday service of the church. We as a denomination need everyone's help – your help – to get people involved and participating in the basic, everyday life of the church. I'm not kidding around here – this is basic survival. Without enthusiasm in the everyday activities like choir, communion setup, fellowship groups, and the ever-present house committee, we are losing our churches. Do you think most people care about the WCC as much as whether the sanctuary is cold on Sundays or the roof is leaking? Do you? But which are the problems you are putting in their face, the ones you are asking them to devote their time and attention to? You're not helping. Ken Brown, Elder, First Presbyterian Church, Portland, Ore. NCC's 'Limousine liberals' flying high Re: Financially troubled NCC charters jet plane for Gonzalez' grandmothers January 27, 2000 In the midst of such a huge financial deficit, it is inconceivable the NCC is chartering jet aircraft to ferry around themselves and the relatives of Elian Gonzalez to and from Cuba. Perhaps these limousine liberals would also be so kind as to explain how the cause of Jesus Christ is advanced by their pandering to the Communists in Cuba? Michael Montgomery, Atlanta, Ga. Don't give NCC another nickel Re: Financially troubled NCC charters jet plane for Gonzalez' grandmothers January 27, 2000 Don't give the NCC another nickel. What business does the NCC have getting involved in the Elian Gonzalez case? The only reason is to support Castro. Pete Simpson, Boomington, Minn. NCC does not show good stewardship Re: Financially troubled NCC charters jet plane for Gonzalez' grandmothers January 27, 2000 The National Council of Churches' concern for the plight of this young Cuban boy so dramatically rescued from the sea is to be applauded. However, in light of the serious financial situation of the council, I question the wisdom of the rather large expense of chartering this plane for the transport of Elian's grandmothers to this country. The apparent rush to assume this large expense in light of the significant deficit in the council treasury does not demonstrate good stewardship, as I see it. Could it be there is a hidden agenda here? Dwight Johnson, Honorably retired PCUSA pastor A 'company man' sees little relevance for NCC January 17, 2000 Those who know me will know that a I am a long time "company man" of 64 with almost 38 years of ordained ministry and 13 years on national staff. My concern with the NCC is that I while I am deeply committed to ecumenism, as well as much of what the NCC supports, I too often get the feeling that the primary agenda is the survival of the NCC. As a relatively recent returnee to the pastorate (43 months), I believe the NCC is a terribly irrelevant factor in this growing, mission oriented, and dynamic church. They simply don't touch our lives. Is anybody willing to consider that institutions may have a finite life span and that having done their job, need to come to an end in order to make way for "new wine and wine skins?" George and Judith Conn, Massanutten Presbyterian Church, Penn Laird, VA NCC has problems, but it's on the right track now January 17, 2000 Is the NCC really a vital ecumenical organization anymore? Yes. It has many problems, as do regional and local ecumenical bodies. We are at the end of the funding chain, and first to be cut if someone decides they don't like us. The NCC has a number of "pet" programs of different denominations, each of which is excellent but sometimes are funded in strange ways. What happened, in part, was not so much fiscal malfeasance as the inability, without good staff and good up-to-date equipment, to keep track of all the special funds, expenditures, etc. There were cash flow issues. These problems date back well over a decade, and yet … . The NCC has been a continuous force for good in issues of church and state, of carrying the voice of the American church to such places as Kosovo (remember the release of the three American soldiers - that wasn't Jesse Jackson, who got the bulk of the publicity, but it was the NCC's relationships with Muslim and Orthodox leaders to make the connections). They have been strong advocates for rebuilding burned churches and addressing the on-going scourge of racism. They are the connecting link at the national level for state and local ecumenism. Does it have problems? Yes. Can they be fixed? Yes. Would it be better or worse to let the NCC collapse and start over? That is debatable, but I think that with stricter financial oversight from the member communions, and greater support, it is better to leave working organizations alive rather than to kill them off and start over. Nancy Jo Kemper, Executive Director, Kentucky Council of Churches, Lexington, KY Let the NCC die a natural death January 17, 2000 One cannot help but wonder if the Presbyterian Church (USA) executives "protest too much." Does Church World Service really need the NCC? I doubt it. Let's let the NCC die a natural death of poor management and greed. If I were CEO of a multi-million dollar company listed on the Big Board and independent auditors found substantial weaknesses in internal control for successive years in which large sums of money could not be accounted for, stock values would plummet and I would be on the street. Why does Stated Clerk Cliff Kirkpatrick think the failure to operate the NCC in a businesslike manner is something "special" that deserves taking contributions from well-run mission projects of PCUSA just so NCC can waste another $300,000 to $500,000? Transferring money from the Burned Churches' Fund doesn't fly either. Jesus said, "No one puts new wine in old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined" Matt. 9:17. Why "spill" more of our money on NCC? Next month, I will be asking my session to withhold funds marked for NCC. This foolishness must stop! Rance Hixson, Hiawatha, Kansas The writer is a certified public accountant. NCC role shaped primarily by politics January 17, 2000 I'm a party loyalist, so to speak, and I assume organizations such as the NCC are good until I am persuaded otherwise. That said, among the things that for me raise the question "Is the NCC irrelevant or outdated" are:
Alec Peters, Raleigh, NC Additional $400,000 for NCC not logical Re: NCC rescue campaign launched in Louisville January 13, 2000 After reading the article regarding the possibility that the National Council of Churches will receive $400,000 more from the Presbyterian Church (USA), it does not sound very logical to me with so many discrepancies in the past. Let's stay in the black. There are many things we'd "like" to do, but God said live within our means, and sometimes that means going with out the frills as God always supplies the needs. Dianna Kohler Stop bailing out Council of Churches Re: NCC rescue campaign launched in Louisville January 13, 2000 Isn't $2 million-plus enough money to throw at an over extended and poorly managed organization? How long shall we support management that we would not accept in our own congregations? Stop bailing out the National Council of Churches. For the money we have invested we should require a full disclosure of funds and tighter controls on spending. Our church gave to the Burned Churches campaign and has participated in CROP Walks for years. It is not good news that that money was diverted from its intended use. William R. Liverett, Clerk of Session, First Presbyterian Church, Franklin, Indiana It's time to take a stand in PCUSA Re: Will Presbyterians bail out the NCC? December 8, 1999 Maybe it is about time for the PCUSA to stand and decide if it wants to follow the easy paths of secularism or if it wants to follow the Bible. The National Council of Churches is not the conduit for the PCUSA to keep giving money away and have no accounting for it. It is the same for the ReImagining group that is in this denomination. If they do not believe that God is the Father, then they must not believe in the words of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Get off the fence and take a stand. Bob Wardrop, Inverness, Fla. Discouraging news short of renewal Re: Will Presbyterians bail out the NCC? December 8, 1999 Oh, how my heart jumped! Alas, it was only a case of reading some glimmer of hope into an otherwise discouraging topic. I thought it read "Will the Presbyterian Church bail out of the NCC?" Guess I will just have to keep on praying for an authentic renewal within the Church. James W. Brown Jr. Political correctedness leads to many abuses Re: NCC forum explores salvation by politics November 23, 1999 Whenever any group tries to run as a politically correct one, many abuses occur because the people in charge will not or cannot make decisions to strengthen that will be for the betterment of the whole. Let the National Council of Churches go. Benjamin W. Barr Politics informing faith is an unethical strategy Re: NCC forum explores salvation by politics November 16, 1999 In regard to the article "NCC forum explores salvation by politics," I find it most distressing, if it is true, that the Interfaith Alliance was launched with a $25,000 contribution by the Democratic Party. It is as though faith is now up for sale, as long as you will support the party causes, whatever they might be. I can hardly believe that this contribution was legal, and even if it was, it seems to me that it obfuscates the line between faith and politics to the point of being unethical. Faith, I believe, should always be used to inform our political choices, but it should never be the servant of politics. Numbers 22 through 24 provides us with a humorous, and definitive stance on this issue: the church must speak God's Word - it is our only calling. Rev. Jack Edmisson National Council has strayed too far Re: Renewal group wants to end National Council November 16, 1999 The National Council of Churches has strayed far from its original Christian purposes and should be allowed to die in peace. Apparently, once a "Christian" organization enters into the morass of humanism it is beyond redemption and the only solution is to help it to die. Then perhaps a new organization may rise from the ashes to fulfill the lofty aims which initiated the now corrupted NCC. I pray that the PC(USA) has not yet crossed that same line, but the stated desire to try to breathe life into the dying NCC is not a hopeful sign. Dick Underwood, Urbana, IL |
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