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2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference Theological litmus test is troubling Re: Presbytery joins sessions in asking council to affirm salvation in none other than Jesus November 22, 2000 What is profoundly troubling is that any Presbyterian officeholder – much less a whole presbytery! – would entertain, for even a moment, the idea of establishing a theological litmus test for any Presbyterian speaker at any Presbyterian meeting. Surely the love, grace and power of the God who comes to us most compellingly in Jesus Christ do not need that kind of protection! Surely the principle of answering talk with talk, rather than with punishment or censorship, is as valid for Presbyterians as for Americans. Gordon L. Shull Wooster, OH So what's hard to understand? Re: Debate erupts over salvation November 22, 2000 In reference to the debate on Salvation in the September/October Layman: Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Pretty simple, HUH? Kenneth Campbell Why we've lost 1.7 million members November 22, 2000 We wonder why we have lost 1,700,000 members in the last 35 years. As a denomination, I am afraid we are adrift in a sea of confusion and misunderstanding of Scripture and tradition as Reformed people. Why we are even discussing these kinds of issues in "Christ's" Church is beyond my comprehension. Don't people read and/or believe the Scriptures any longer? Don't people read Calvin, Knox and other Reformed writers? Who are we to decide that God is wrong and we are right? When issues are divisive, we need to ask ourselves, "Where are these issues coming from?" – certainly not from God! Thank you Layman for keeping us abreast of what is "really" happening in the PCUSA. I just hope we are still the PCUSA in the years ahead. Some great prophet said, "Come let us reason together says the Lord, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow." Perhaps the key word is "reason." Being "Reformed and always being reformed," doesn't mean we accept every "pagan" religion or non-Christian religion in the name of compromise, but this is exactly what we are doing. Christ has given us our command and our guidelines – we can either accept them as "gospel," or simply discard them as many in our church are doing – much to their and our detriment. My prayer is that we will become "people of the Book," not people of the books! Our denomination is languishing because of these divisive issues. We must put these behind and us and place our eyes on the author and finisher of our faith – the one we proclaim to serve. Jesus didn't say, "I am one of the ways, truths and lives." He said, "I AM the way, the truth and the life." For me that's pretty specific. I appreciate the work you do to keep the church informed of these issues in an objective way. Rev. Gene Edwards Pryor, OK Why does PCUSA underwrite Ficca? Re: Debate erupts over salvation November 22, 2000 I have for many years been a member of PCUSA. I have read Dirk Ficca's address to the recent Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference. I am appalled that the PCUSA would underwrite the cost of his participation when he doesn't even hold the basic truths of our Christian beliefs. If you call yourself a Christian you must believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, he died for our sins on the cross and was resurrected from the dead in order that we may have eternal life. I was insulted that Ficca used the verse "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light, no one comes to the Father except through Me," and then distorted it. Both in Scripture and in our constitution, we hold that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to God. There is no exception. I'm beginning to think that our leadership needs to go back to Christianity 101 and relearn the basics. As a denomination we need to get a backbone and stand up for Jesus Christ and what he taught us. Dirk Ficca needs to be removed as a pastor. Tara Savino Warrenville, IL Seasoned professional should have known better Re: Detterick says Peacemaking speaker was 'out of bounds' November 9, 2000 If Mr. Dettrick was a novice at holding high office in our denomination (or perhaps an alien from another planet) his most recent retrenchment of his office's lame response would be understandable. However, he is a seasoned church professional. But I guess as long as we can cite "learnings" then that makes everything OK. Donald Denton Detterick's statement applauded Re: Detterick says Peacemaking speaker was 'out of bounds' November 9, 2000 Amen!! John Detterick's got it! Let's pray the council agrees, accedes, and so on...... Bob von Oeyen Presbyterian College and Theological Seminary Seoul, Korea Why fellowship with heresy? Re: Controversial minister works with group that includes witches November 9, 2000 The Scriptures, in Romans 14:23, declare, ".....that whatsoever is not of faith is sin." How are the lost to know whom to believe? Rev. Dirk Ficca's "Council for the Parliment of World Religions" is, without a doubt, exactly what its name describes. Some of its representatives call themselves, "neo-pagan." Several groups that practice witchcraft are among the neo-pagans." It would not surprise me to find that Darwin's theory of evolution was the foundation on which their charter was modeled. Isn't it time to deny fellowship to those who teach doctrine contrary to what the Scriptures teach? Yes, we live in a country where freedom of speech is practically a sacrament. But that right belongs to the body of Christ as well. I would never deny Dr. Ficca's right to that freedom. But such heresy must be addressed openly; not just in councils. Where shall mankind go to hear the truth if those entrusted with it do not shine the Scripture's truth on such abominations. Is not Dr. Ficca's teaching "another doctrine?" John H. Steiler Deer, AR General Assembly Council erred Re: Council doesn't reprimand speaker or PCUSA group November 9, 2000 The General Assembly Council was in error in its reply to the session of Highland Park when it stated, "We reaffirm Dr. Ficca's right to his own views..." If, indeed, as stated in news reports, Rev. Ficca is an ordained Presbyterian minister, he is bound by his oath of ordination. Until he officially renounces those vows and his position as an ordained minister he is subject to discipline and should be suspended from any activity as a Presbyterian minister until disciplinary proceedings are concluded and a decision reached. The session of Highland Park should continue in its efforts and seek judicial action. I would encourage other sessions and Presbyteries to join them in this effort. Robert E. Woodward Council is hedging its bets Re: Council doesn't reprimand speaker or PCUSA group November 9, 2000 It sure looks like the General Assembly Council is hedging its bets. They want to keep their liberal cronies happy and throw a weak response to Highland to keep the money coming in. It's this kind of two-faced response to important Christian doctrines that in the end drove me to leave the denomination. Now when I offer the salvation message to someone it is clear and firm all the way to the top leader of my denomination. I hope some day that the sole path to Salvation through Jesus Christ will once again be the centerpiece of the PCUSA instead of one offering on the buffet table of Presbyterian pluralism. Jay Weemhoff Badin, NC Truth is not relative: Christ is the way Re: Council doesn't reprimand speaker or PCUSA group October 27, 2000 In response to the letter by the General Assembly Council's Executive Committee posted 25 October 2000: Truth is not relative. Christ said, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life." Christ is God and is therefore the final authority on matters of truth. Our call as Christians is to spread the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. We should do this with loving compassion for those who need to hear the truth for their own salvation, yet without the slightest compromise of Christ's revealed truth. We should recognize that there are evil forces at work in our world as well. People, even those posing as Christians, even those recognized as prominent Christians, can do Satan's work. This is why Paul wrote to the Ephesians, "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them" (Acts 21:29-30). The men will arise to draw away the disciples after them. The truth can only point to Jesus Christ. Any religious teaching that does not point to Jesus Christ is false. Christ said, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide, and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter by it. For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it. Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me you who pracitce lawlessness." (Mat. 7:13-23) (NASB). We are not to be ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. While I appreciate others' interpretations and commentaries of the Gospel, I argue those that do not uphold the Word of God. As I expect others to lovingly correct me when I err, so too should our church organization lovingly correct its ordained members. Dave Hirlinger Highland Park letter applauded Re: Highland Park session asks PCUSA council to affirm Christ as only Savior and Lord October 11, 2000 The Highland Park letter is a great step in presenting our righteous indignation concerning individuals and groups trying to minimize our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as deity and the only way to salvation. May God have mercy on their pitiful souls. John Mitchell Highland Park letter an encouraging sign Re: Highland Park session asks PCUSA council to affirm Christ as only Savior and Lord October 11, 2000 The decision of the session of the Highland Park Presbyterian Church is encouraging news. In less that one month two sessions have told the PCUSA leadership to adopt the historical Christian faith in which the divinity of Lord Jesus Christ is unquestionable. He is the way, the only way. He is the only hope for all mankind for forgiveness of sins and eternal life. The revival is coming and though slow yet it is heartening that it is coming. Timotheus Nasir The United Presbyterian Church of Pakistan Christians should use Bible, not speculation Re: Highland Park session asks PCUSA council to affirm Christ as only Savior and Lord October 11, 2000 To believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, from everlasting to everlasting the Son of the Most High, part of the Godhead as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, is basic and fundamental to what it means to be a Christian. At the heart of the Christian faith is the triune Jehovah as revealed in the Holy Trinity. To indicate Jesus Christ is anything other than the Son of the Living God, the Word made flesh, is to deny the Trinity. John 1:14 tells us, "We have seen his glory, the One and Only, who came from the Father." Verse 18 tells us, "No one has ever seen God, but God the only Son, who is at the Father's side, has made him known." That is part of what John tells us about Christ but Christ was also very plain as to who he was and is and what he came to do, "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. ... For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day" (John 6: 39-40). Christians should have no doubt as to the identity of Christ nor should they doubt, or even express the doubt, that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation. What is it that some Presbyterians do not understand about Acts 4:12? "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." If they do not believe this, why do they continue to darken our counsel with words without wisdom? Moreover, why do we continue to let them? All of us need to pray for a renewal of the Holy Spirit within the PCUSA, particularly the errant members of our clergy and leadership who, lost in postmodernism, have succumbed to a speculative theology based in philosophical reasoning rather than grounded in Biblical revelation. The time for this Church is growing short. He says what he means plainly enough in Scripture and his word endures forever.
Second Presbyterian Church Carlisle, PA Won't any of our leaders take a stand? Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address September 26, 2000 Is the hierarchy of the PCUSA so infected with the disease of postmodern relativism that NO action will be taken against the heretical remarks of Mr. Ficca? Shall everyone in leadership of the denomination refuse to take a stand against the denigration of our Lord and Savior? Is church discipline DEAD in the PCUSA? Is the denominational leadership REALLY ready to be tagged with accepting those who flatly deny Christ's words, that he is THE way, THE truth and THE life? Are people so afraid of offending their unbelieving neighbors that they are unwilling or unable to accept the words of our Lord? We must recall that the Gospel is an OFFENSE to those who are lost – of course, one way to remove that offense is to deny that any are in fact lost ... a heresy which is creeping into the mainline, but is not our subject here. The point I wish to address is the other option for cross-offense-removal: i.e. the denial of the exclusivity of Christ's sacrifice as the means to salvation. Over the past few weeks, I have followed with shock and horror the unabashed presence of zipped lips and turning a blind eye among the denominational leadership to this rank heresy. It is, in my view, frankly astonishing. How long before the PCUSA decides to be honest with itself and with its members, and propose dispensing with all confessional standards? Frankly, I wish that day would come very soon – at least then the PCUSA leaders would be presenting an honest witness to the world. As it stands, at least among the leadership, its witness to the truth of the Gospel is in shambles, grasping on to no standards nor courage of any convictions (apart from the liberal social agenda). Where shall we stand? On the solid rock of Christ, or upon the house of cards of vain men's imaginations? Shall we continue to kowtow to modern universalism or turn from this terrible notion? Shall we on the other hand take a firm position alongside the apostles and alongside Christ, holding up his cross alone for the world to see? Todd Pedlar Ithaca, NY Why do some ministers refute the Bible? Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone September 26, 2000 One of your articles quoted a Presbyterian (I am ashamed to say) "minister" as asking the question,"What's the big deal about Jesus?" My response to that question is that the "big deal" about Jesus is that he is the son of God who died for my sins. We have the choice of allowing him to be our savior (and best friend) or our judge (and perhaps our worst enemy). I am constantly amazed that people become ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and refute everything in the Bible. Ray Hardy Hilton Head, SC Unitarian church has some openings Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address September 26, 2000 Sounds like the leadership wants us all to become Unitarians, who believe in nothing more than being "nice." I say there is already a Unitarian church, and rather than trying to make the Presbyterian church into an Unitarian church, why don't they just change their membership and annoy someone else for a change. No sense in reinventing the wheel. Kenley Lawton El Paso, TX Is conscience the same as Jesus' call? Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone September 26, 2000 The question is, can one come to the Father, through Jesus, and not know it was Jesus drawing them. Can ignorant humans respond to something we generally call conscience which bears fruit in correct behavior, correct emotions, correct relationships? Jesus said he is the way, the truth and the life. Jesus said if he is lifted up, he will draw all men (humanity) to Him. Must we call on this powerful drawing force "Jesus" to be drawn? For me, I believe that many throughout history will be saved, yet be in ignorance of Jesus' name and personal history. They may have heard of God's moral law though the lips of their parents, some of the teaching of Buddha, Mohammad, etc. Yet if their understanding was confronted with the specific truths on Jesus and his life, and they rejected this understanding of the personal Jesus, they would be lost. One day in heaven, I believe God will show us how the fragments of God's 10 commandments, found in other religions, will be understood to have originated from Jesus, the creator-God, the originator of truth. God will judge each human on how they have reacted to the presentation of "truth," be it in the form of Jesus, other moral authority or conscience. Only God can judge whether the story told to the ear of the ignorant soul was sufficiently clear to their understanding to hold them responsible for their rejection of the personal Jesus and their refusal to take the name "Christian." We are commanded to preach the gospel of the truth as it is in Jesus to the world. We dare not disobey at the peril of our own souls. We must leave the judgment of the effect we have on other's souls to the God of judgment and justice. Elizabeth Iskander, M.D. La Canada, CA What Ficca did not say is significant, too Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone September 19, 2000 It is encouraging to read that others, too, are amazed by Dick Ficca's comments. I believe many of us wish we had more time available to respond to statements such as his. Ficca's presentation was significant for what it did not say. As he relayed impressions of other faiths with his Long Beach audience, no where did he make a defining statement about Jesus Christ. Paul reminds us that, "God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself." Ficca's apparent disregard for the atoning work of Christ is simply one of the tragedies that has emerged out of this situation. It is ironic and tragic that the spiritual forces Ficca and others flirt with are the same forces that are killing our missionaries and brothers and sisters in the Church universal. All this reminds us that Paul's prayer for the Ephesians is still needed today. That is, we need a spirit of discernment and revelation. Tragically, the lack of holy leadership in our denomination, if continues, will lead to the demise of our denomination. So be it, but, the Church triumphant will march on. Jerry J. Voss Millbrook Presbyterian Church Fresno, CA Inconsistency between faith and practice Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone September 19, 2000 We continue to lose members because of the inconsistency between our faith and our practice. Our constitution proclaims one thing, we do another. The General Assembly and staffers continue to proclaim things incongruent with the constitution and for sure at variance with its constituent members. We proclaim that "theology matters," yet in practice it does not. Both the confessions of the church and the Bible instruct us that Jesus is, indeed, the ONLY way of salvation. But in practice, we allow Mr. Ficca to proclaim otherwise. He is simply proclaiming traditional universalism, not ecumenism. Why are we not requiring him to relinquish his ordination as the constitution requires? While many born-anew Presbyterians are willing to share the Good News of the Gospel with the heathen, they feel that to lower the ceiling to make everyone taller is inappropriate. To deny the centrality of the atonement found only in Jesus is to mock God. Several years ago, after the General Assembly approved several million dollars for evangelism, our denominational magazine posited that we really didn't know what evangelism was. What to do? Run a contest for the best definition. The result of the contest seemed to be that we really don't need evangelism. Why would we, if all religions of the world were equally valid? Some years later, the same magazine ran an article about PCUSA ministers of the Word and Sacrament being married to members of false religions. Again the implication seemed to be "Why not?" I used to think that perhaps PCUSA was an acronym for Presbyterian Church, Universal Salvation for All. Now that we have all but done away with the concept of sin, it must now be, Presbyterian Church, Universal Sainthood for All. Jasper McClellan San Angelo, TX Church trial should be held over speaker's comments Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address September 19, 2000 I have read the excerpts, the letters, the responses from the leadership and the transcript of the address the Rev. Dirk Ficca gave at the Peacekeeping Conference. I am very disturbed by Ficca's statements, and even more so by the responses of the denominational leadership (to wit; the conference leaders and Peter Pizor and John Detterick of the General Assembly Council). The third great end of the church is the preservation of the truth; the first great end is the proclamation of the Gospel of salvation. If a pastor moves away from the truth, or works to prohibit the proclamation of the Gospel, then he or she must be approached, rebuked in love and remedial action taken. If the person refuses to be schooled, and continues to betray ordination vows, then the full discipline of the church should be invoked. If a person does not wish such discipline, and cannot agree with the constitution and confessions of the denomination, he or she is free to renounce jurisdiction of the Presbyterian Church (USA). This is what the conscience clause is for. I believe these three questions need to be asked of Ficca by a judicial commission:
Action must be taken, and taken soon, by the Chicago Presbytery and the denominational leaders. If they do not, the people will see this as one more nail in the coffin of our great denomination. Rev. Jon S. Evans Presbyterian Kirk of the Lake Houghton Lake, MI Jesus' divinity questioned by staffers Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address September 4, 2000 I am amazed at how little outrage is being expressed over the Rev. Dirk Ficca's comments at the Peacemaking conference, and more importantly over the comments made by PCUSA staffers. I have read the full text of Mr. Ficca's sermon. He is a humanist with the language of the Christian. He lays out sound Christian doctrine as something which impedes the ecumenical process and calls the church to stop evangelizing. The closest he comes to saying anything Christian is his comment (quoted by John Detterick in the response letter) that "God was in Christ", but the god of which he speaks is not the God who is Christ. This is more horrific than ReImagining. Our church leaders are saying that the denial of Christ as THE Lord and THE Savior is perfectly acceptable. Mr. Ficca and all staffers who support him have a right to their opinion, but not to tout it in the PCUSA who is still a Trinitarian, Christ alone professing Church. They should all be removed from office. Esther Berg Minister at Large Membership losses, theology linked Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: Membership loss of PCUSA reaches nearly 1.7 million Presbyterians September 4, 2000 I am appalled by the story about Dirk Ficca, an ordained PCUSA clergy, telling a group that Jesus is not the only way to salvation. He goes on to say that Christians "offend" other religions by this assertion of Jesus as the only way to reach God. What vows did he take upon installation? Why would a person seek a position of minister of word and sacrament if he did not believe Jesus was the only way to salvation? Were we commanded to go forth and speak not of Jesus? Another featured story is the dramatic loss in membership of PCUSA since 1966. Could there possibly be a correlation between this loss and off-the-wall theology expressed by some who are in leadership positions? To survive as a denomination, perhaps it is time to return to the Reformed Christian doctrine on which it was founded. Terry Frame First Presbyterian Church of Canton Layman account 'distorted the truth' Re: Presbyterians debate salvation by faith in Christ alone Re: Text of Dirk Ficca's presentation at the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference September 4, 2000 Well in typical Layman style you distorted the truth. The full text of Dirk Ficca's address does not bear out your biased depiction of what he said. You are the National Enquirer of Christian publications, and shame on you. Chris Peters Novato, Calif. Statement sounds great, but is it just spin? Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address August 29, 2000 General Assembly Council Moderator Peter Pizor and Executive Director John J. Detterick said, "We believe that God's love and grace for us was revealed through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ Jesus and that through Christ, with Christ, in Christ, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor belong to Almighty God." It sounds great, but I read it as pure spin. This is done on two levels. First, having the appearance of godliness while denying the power thereof, it says something orthodox that does not address the issue of the uniqueness of Christ as the only way of salvation. How much better it would have been to have declared that the PCUSA strongly affirms that salvation is in Christ alone, which is "the big deal about Jesus" and the issue at hand needing to be dealt with. Second, the statement affirms that "we believe that God's love and grace FOR US was revealed through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ Jesus" (for us Presbyterians, and I suppose for Christians generally). The statement does not go far enough. People of other faiths might well be able to affirm that indeed, for Christians, this is true (Franz Rosensweig comes immediately to mind, but he'd also affirm that torah observance brings salvation for Jews). Actually, my own experience with people who hold to other faiths strongly is that they believe theirs is the only right and proper way to salvation and the rest of the world needs to see the light and convert. Finally, I don't buy for a moment the assertion that Ficca "speaks for himself and not for the Presbyterian Church (USA)". As a minister of Word and Sacrament exercising office in the PCUSA, he carries in himself (as we all do) delegated authority to preach and teach and officiate at the sacraments and services of the church. He carries within himself responsibility for the reputation of the PCUSA in his statements and actions (as we all do). And while they may be his own rather than an official proclamation by the Church, they reflect upon the PCUSA and have the potential to bring scandal on the name of the denomination (not to mention upon Christ). How are we "to live faithfully as Presbyterians in a religiously plural world"? The only way that makes any sense to me is not to deny the faith we claim to hold, but to firmly adhere to it, to boldly proclaim it, and to live it out in love as a witness to the life-transforming power of Christ in us, the only hope of glory. Rev. Bill Pawson Pembroke Pines, Fla. Minister member Presbytery of Tropical Florida Why bother to whitewash Ficca's address? Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address August 29, 2000 Why does the General Assembly Council even bother trying to whitewash Dirk Ficca's keynote address to the 2000 Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference? It is laughable that from a single (seemingly orthodox) quote the Council decides Mr. Ficca is actually affirming "all things under the Lordship of Jesus Christ" when he so clearly repudiates the Great Commission. Christ's directive for us to spread the gospel throughout the world is in no way ambiguous and is clearly spelled out in scripture. It is amazing that Christians bear the brunt of criticism for proselytizing, when other religious groups do the same thing (and you never hear apologists in their sects). With ministers like Mr. Ficca, it is no wonder the PCUSA membership never grows. Michael Montgomery How long must we put up with this stuff? Re: GAC leaders issue statement on Peacemaking Conference address August 29, 2000 Just how long are we going to have to put up with this stuff? Somehow or another my family's money goes to support these lunatics! I am holding on. But one of these days they are going to do something so outrageous that I will turn my back on the generations of Presbyterians from whence I come. I really do not think there is any way to oppose these people. When one does say anything contrary to their party line, one is called a right wing whacko, homophobe or sexist. I have attended presbytery meetings here where it was all I could do to keep from losing my breakfast. Whenever I have spoken I have been met with derision. … I chalk up some of that derision to the church which I proudly represent. Hey, keep up the fight. Make those of us who are real discouraged think there might be some hope. Bob Dawson Elder Peachtree Presbyterian Church Atlanta Denomination's leaders out of touch August 29, 2000 That the leadership of our denomination is out of touch with the membership is no surprise. Too many ministers, wishing to avoid controversy and the turmoil that can accompany it, do not relate the issues that are boiling around the denomination to their members. I don't think most of our congregation is aware that there is a significant portion of our church leadership that wants to ordain unrepentant, practicing homosexuals and conduct same sex "holy union" ceremonies. I don't think our denomination's stand on abortion rights is widely known by our congregation, simply because it is not discussed from the pulpit. Perhaps too many ministers avoid the subject by telling themselves that the Bible speaks only from silence on this issue since there are no specific references that prohibit abortion. (Of course there are no specific references to nuclear warfare either, but that hasn't stopped Presbyterian Peacemaking from bellowing on about disarmament with the full endorsement of our denomination's leadership.) The problem is that the post-modern leadership simply does not share the same definitions of truth and morality that most of us in the pews possess. In a way, that is a function of their training during the Vietnam war and post-war eras when colleges, universities and seminaries all lowered their academic standards while becoming more polemical and simultaneously skewing to the left. As a historian, with a doctorate in American military history earned in 1984, I was astounded in 1991, when my contention before a panel of my colleagues at a historical convention that we historians have an obligation to pursue truth was met with ridicule and derision. "What truth? Your truth? Whose truth? Who are you to define truth?" Sadly, the same post-modern aberration from intellectual rigor has infected the denomination. The result of abandoning the Word of God as a definitive truth has been the abandonment of Christian virtue and moral certitude. I am also not encouraged by the poll that shows so many of our members and clergy not believing that faith in Jesus Christ and repentance of our sins are necessary for salvation. Again, I lay this at the feet of both a clergy in apostasy or a clergy avoiding their call to preach Christ crucified and risen as the only mediator between God and man and the only suitable and acceptable propitiation for our sins. Earl Tilford, Ph.D. Second Presbyterian Church Carlisle, Pa. Frozen Chosen thaw out Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 21, 2000 At first reading of Dirk Ficca's comment, "So what's the big deal about Jesus?" I wanted to give up on the PCUSA. I felt crushed. But over the last few days of reading people's impassioned comments online I feel this has actually been a victory for the Church. The Lord in his great love has taken a statement so vile and has now actually worked it out for the good. I have never heard people so impassioned for Christ, so in love with Jesus. Ficca's comments have made people think about where they stand and have served as a wake-up call to the "frozen chosen" of the PCUSA. It seems that not all are frozen but that many are on fire for the Lord. Karen Baker First Presbyterian Mesa, Ariz. Without Jesus, there is no Gospel Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 15, 2000 Like the Christian church in early Corinth, pastors of today wish to water down the Gospel to make it palatable for popular demand. Sadly, some of the teachers and leaders in our churches have turned the freedom of Christ into a license to do all manner of deceitful and sinful things. They are teaching the gospel of free thinking, free love and no accountability. This is a far cry from the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but then, according the Pastor Ficca, "what's the big deal about Jesus Christ anyway?" I hope many will join me in prayer for Pastor Ficca, that he may still see that without Jesus, his philosophies are as fleeting as the wind and as nourishing as burnt grass. There is no difference between his views and the world's views. Doug Day Elder Gashland Presbyterian Church Kansas City, Mo. Pastor's comments authenticate the Bible Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 15, 2000 After reading the most recent letters to the editor portion of The Layman Online it struck me that there is one point that we are missing. Dirk Ficca's renunciation of the Trinity, our Reformed theology and our confessions, which amounts to a renunciation of God's Word, is very clearly a testimony to the truth of that same Word. "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:3-5 (NIV) So I say to the Dirk Ficca's of the world, "Thank you for making my ministry to the unsaved that much easier by allowing me to show them just how accurate and truthful God's Word really is." As a second note I would encourage your readers to turn to 2 Timothy 3:1-9. Does it sound familiar? Fasten your seatbelts and hang on folks, we ain't seen nothin' yet. The time is indeed growing short. Mike Schrowang Elder Londonderry Presbyterian Church Londonderry, Mass. The big deal about Jesus Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 8, 2000 What's the big deal about Jesus? Let's see ... He's the eternal Son of God, co-substantial with the Father. He became incarnate, taking on human nature and likeness. He alone led a perfect, sinless life, in complete obedience to the Father. He offered Himself up as an atonement for all the sins of all the elect. He rose from the dead, thereby signifying His victory over sin and death. He is the Resurrection and the Life – anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life – nobody comes to the Father except through Him. His is the only name under heaven given among men and women by which we must be saved, as salvation is found in no one else. He is the Author and Perfector of our faith. Faith in Him, and in Him alone, is the one absolute, non-negotiable requirement for salvation. Those who have faith in Him are saved from God's just condemnation on us for our sins; those who do not are not. What's the big deal about Dirk Ficca? Not much really. He's just an apostate preacher who has no legitimate business in a Presbyterian pulpit. Loren J. Golden Overland Park, KS Embarrassed to be called Presbyterian Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 8, 2000 "So what's the big deal about Jesus?" This utterance from a Presbyterian "minister" at the Presbyterian Peacemaking Conference for 2000, and the assertion that we must abandon our belief that salvation comes only through Jesus so as not to offend others, is just another in a long series of abominations offered up in the name of the Presbyterian Church (USA). Is anyone else embarrassed or perhaps outraged? I know there are many fine Biblically grounded Presbyterian ministers and laity, but this denomination has been sowing the seeds of liberal theology for a long time and this is rotten fruit that has grown. How any church, session, presbytery, synod or any other Presbyterian governing body can permit someone to minister who professes a theology that is more Buddhist than Christian is simply beyond my comprehension. How much more of this garbage are we supposed to put up with? Sophia, Jesus Seminar, Witherspoon Society, a successful minister is banished from his church because his services are not Presbyterian enough, etc, etc, etc. It never seems to end. The obvious question is if I'm so disgusted with the Presbyterian Church , why don't I leave? Answer: I'm working on it. Every organization has a few ding-dongs and I suppose one has to put up with them. It seems to me, however, that their numbers are legion and I am too embarrassed and ashamed of the actions done in the name of the Presbyterian Church (USA) to continue. If I saw evidence of some kind of active and immediate effort to defeat this kind of nonsense, I would consider staying. I'm willing to confront evil and stand firm for Christ, but I feel that I'm alone. I must be alone. This outrage was printed yesterday in Presbyweb and the only response (a good one) came from one Presbyterian minister. Either no one read the article or no one cares. Anyone who knows the truth yet sits and does nothing is just as guilty as those who actively profess heresy. Gary Houseman Elder, Ashburn Presbyterian Church Ashburn, VA 'Who is your Lord and Savior?' Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 8, 2000 While the Presbyterian denomination is all inclusive (and rightly so, we are all sinners), the one question new members are asked and required to answer is, "Who is your Lord and Savior?". If Rev. Dirk Ficca cannot answer this question appropriately, with a yes, for Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one goes to the Father but through me" then he must be held accountable by the denomination and removed from his leadership position and membership in the Presbyterian Church USA. Peter Nelson Thermal, CA Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 8, 2000 I read with absolute horror the words of Reverend (?) Dirk Ficca pronouncing that, "God's ability to work in our lives is not determined by becoming a Christian," Ficca said. "So what's the big deal about Jesus?" In the speech he gave to the 600 people who attended the Presbyterian Peace Conference 2000, Mr. Ficca attacked the gospel, engaged in Orwellian doublespeak revisionism, and reverted back to Universalism. First, Ficca engages in doublespeak revisionsim by stating what others of other religions have told him, that is, that preaching the gospel "'feels' to them like ... a kind of religious 'ethnic cleansing.'" Excuse me? This doublespeak reduces God's gospel to all men into some sort of 'ethnic cleansing.' Just who does he think God is other than the creator of all men and the source of light to the nations (ethnics)? Where does he get the authority to make such a judgment? Second, by rejecting that "salvation comes solely through Jesus" and that there are many paths to salvation, Mr. Ficca opens the door wide to the heresy of universalism, that it doesn't matter what people do with Jesus and that salvation doesn't depend on the grace shown through Christ. Has he decided to burn his Bible? First, it was Spong who rose to some Presbyterian pulpits and now it is Ficca following in Spong's footsteps of the rejection of God's Word. Can many more Presbyterian USA ministers not be too far behind? These two have opened the door to the inferno of destruction. How many will rush through it before whole congregations follow and sink down into that inferno and are destroyed? These are sad days for the denomination. But opportunity still exists by calling such leaders to task concerning their heretical doctrines and beckoning congregations to stand firm on the only source of our salvation – Jesus Christ, just as the Apostle Peter declared, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." [Acts 4:12, NIV] Therefore, the choice is clear: the gospel or doublespeak revisionism. What will it be for the denomination? Floyd Talbot San Jose, CA Ficca has lost his way Re: Pastor at peace conference: 'What's the big deal about Jesus?' August 8, 2000 I think John 14:6 addresses Ficca's question of "what's the big deal about Jesus?" "Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.'" Jesus doesn't say "I am one of the ways to the Father" but rather "...the way" and "No one comes to the Father except through me." Ficca says that the challenge Christians face today is to find "a way to maintain the integrity of our own Christian faith, yet not feel that we have to convert others." When you compromise the gospel by propagating that there are other ways to the Father than Jesus Christ, you have lost your integrity as a Christian. I never feel that I "have to convert others." Conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit. He may choose to use me to lead others to life in Jesus Christ but it is always by His Holy Spirit and through Jesus Christ that a person enters the kingdom of God. I am troubled by all those who think that peacemaking is something that we think we can accomplish through our own efforts without the ultimate peacemaker, Jesus Christ at the center of what we do. Their attempts will only produce a false peace ... a peace that the world offers. I myself prefer the peace of Christ that is eternal. As Jesus said to those who trusted in Him as the way (John 14:27) "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid." N. Kirk Werner Pastor, Lake Forest Presbyterian Church Knoxville, TN |
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