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2004 letters to the editor Archives of letters to the editor  |
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Africa Presbyterians show Christian moral courage April 30, 2004 The Presbyterian Church of East Africa has shown us what Christian moral courage is all about. Severing all ties and all fellowship with churches and presbyteries that either ordain self-affirming and unrepentant homosexuals or who, through their inaction, countenance such behavior is the way to go. Similarly, Christians should have no relationship with ministers or churches that perform homosexual "marriages" or by whatever guise, otherwise "bless" those relationships. After all, ordinations performed in contravention of Biblical admonitions and the Book of Order have no validity. Likewise, "marriages" between two men or two women, in addition to violating all Biblical precepts and commandments on marriage (not to mention most state ordinances) are a moral and physical as well as legal impossibility. Since these cannot exist either physically, morally or legally, they do not exist. Accordingly, they are invalid. Cutting off all relationships with presbyteries or congregations that indulge in such practices is perfectly legitimate. Indeed, it's time to withdraw recognition from the leadership in Louisville and to disavow the actions of the rogue Washington Office of the PCUSA. The moderator and stated clerk have by their words, actions (like inviting homosexual activist Chris Glaser to speak at General Assembly) and inaction, encouraged both the ordination of unrepentant and practicing homosexuals and the blessing of homosexual couplings. By extension, Christian congregations within this denomination also should abandon relationships with presbyteries that countenance – and congregations that allow – the worship or honoring of pagan gods and goddesses and other made-up deities, whether those be Allah the non-existent, Buddha the dead, Confucius the also dead, Vishnu and Shiva and the thousands of other figments of Hindu hallucinations, the lately out-of-work-from-cowboy western's "great spirit" and the divine feminine fantasy bimbo earth mother. Allowing the recognition of any of these entities within the house of the Lord is, in addition to being silly, an abomination before the Lord God Jehovah who really wasn't kidding when he said in Deuteronomy 5:6-, "I am the Lord your God … you shall have no other gods before me." (That's "the first commandment" for Columbia Seminary faculty, students and recent alumni.) Congregations that engage in such practices are not Christian. So, it is the calling of Christians to convert them … not recognize their heresies, abominations and religious pranks. "Intolerant and judgmental." You betcha! It's time Christians stop tolerating and endorsing by their silence the abominations and pagan practices that go on in the PCUSA and that are countenanced by the radical politicos who comprise the Louisville leadership and who operate the Washington Office. Earl H. Tilford Jr., elder East Main Presbyterian Church Grove City, Pa. More will follow East Africa's lead unless PCUSA changes its ways April 30, 2004 Your recent news item of a presbytery in the Presbyterian Church of East Africa breaking fellowship with National Capitol Presbytery is not surprising to me. In general, Presbyterians in other countries are much more conservative theologically and Biblically than many within the PCUSA. For years I have mentioned to pastors, presbyters and other leaders of our church that our decision to ordain practicing homosexuals will have grave consequences with our partners overseas. Yet, there seems to be a "I don't care attitude" on the part of many and an arrogance that they are somehow right in their un-Biblical positions. Well, we so far have the reaction of one presbytery as to this arrogance and more will follow unless this group within our church considers its ways. Knowing first hand how many of our partners think in Latin America, I am sure that if we continue to permit the breaking of our church decisions and laws that the results will continue to be disastrous. Though we do have our liberals in other continents, the vast majority of Presbyterians are evangelical in convictions and as in the case of Anglicans in other countries, a break will be inevitable. I just pray that the Holy Spirit will be listened to as found in Holy Scripture as to this issue so that God will be glorified and not culture, which here is clearly against God's revealed will for humanity! Rev. Eddie Soto, associate pastor Faith Presbyterian Church Tallahassee, Fla. PCUSA is view as two churches: one gay, one Biblical April 30, 2004 It seems that more and more, the PCUSA is viewed as two churches with one name. One is gay and the other Biblical. The division borders are at the presbytery level rather than the national level. If the stated clerk's responsibility is to encourage unity – not just talk about it – this issue has to be addressed as what is perceived often becomes reality … i.e., two churches. John Buckingham Ivory misrepresent the faith, theology and people of the PCUSA April 30, 2004 Elenora Giddings Ivory needs to be fired immediately for her actions which misrepresent the faith, theology, and people of the PCUSA. Her work continues to divide the church while it denies the truth of God's Word. We need a stated clerk with the guts to say this. I will! The Rev Dr. Richard Wolling and the session of the Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church in Pittsburgh Presbytery should be commended for their bold and courageous stand in breaking fellowship with the apostate. Too bad our denominational leadership does not have the courage to stand up for Jesus. L Rus Howard Candidate for stated clerk Positions, proclamations and behavior are essentially anti-Christian April 30, 2004 Congratulations to Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church for its well-founded and well-articulated stand. I am one of those who as resigned their membership in PCUSA (Politically Correct-USA) because the official positions of the governing organizations, public proclamations in the name of PCUSA and the behavior of PCUSA hirelings (including so called ministers of the word) who are essentially anti-Christian. I believe the next steps involve severing communion with all part of all levels of PCUSA that are in breach of contract and taking any and all actions necessary to regain full control over the resources misplaced in the hands of those organizational parts. Raymond E. Sandborgh formerly part of the Presbyterian communion More 'twistings' are hardly surprising April 30, 2004 One hardly seems surprised any longer at the twistings by the More Lights of espoused positions of those who seek to be faithful to traditional Christianity. Evidence is found in their statement that "the pastor and session of Beverly Heights have suggested that dissent is the same as heresy, disagreement synonymous with sin, and working within the constitutional framework of our denomination somehow disordered. We are dismayed at how disproportionately Beverly Heights is responding to other faithful Presbyterians with whom they disagree." Is not the "spin" of their statement clear? I would be absolutely mystified if Beverly Heights would agree that dissent equals heresy, that disagreement equals sin, and that working within our constitution equals disorder. While interpreting a statement of position is always required, "spinning," that is, making something say what is not commensurate with the intention of the espouser, is improper. This not only speaks of the unethical interpretive methods they will employ, but also why many of us find it difficult to believe anything they say or positions they hold and propound. If we might commend them for anything, perhaps it is in some cases consistency. The same spinning and errant exegetical methods are used to treat Scripture passages that specifically deal with sexuality and God's will and those passages which really don't pertain to the subject but which are forced to have a say. Rev. Steven L. Seng First Presbyterian Church Wellsburg, W.Va. To suggest Christ married is coming out of the Gnostic pit of hell April 30, 2004 Did Jesus marry Mary Magdalene and have children? No, why? Because the four gospels by way of the Holy Spirit did not record the same. Furthermore, Christ did not come to earth to marry, but to die for my sins, redeem me, giving me new life in Christ as recorded in the gospels. Christ died for those whom the Father has given Christ as his elect. To suggest Christ married is coming out of the Gnostic pit of hell, deceiving many through the DeVinci Code. If we believe the Holy Bible is the Word of God – and for many of us – the Holy Bible is the Word of God, issues destroying the PCUSA would become moot. Jude 24, "Contend for the faith, once given over to the saints." Louis S Nowasielski What did Ivory say? April 30, 2004 I received a mailing that tells of Elenora Giddings Ivory deleting a line from the Book of Order that makes her statement come out in favor of homosexual unions. I am reading the text of what she is reported to have said with the line she left out. It still says "marriage is a covenant through which a man and woman are called ..." So how does this support or say that she is advocating homosexual unions? Is she gay? Is there more that she said that was not included in the article? I was going to show this to someone, but after I read it I realized that it does not seem to say what you are implying and I would not know how to answer when she would point that put to me. So what gives? Julie Deisenroth For further explanation of what Ivory said, see "Just what did Ivory say?" Editor's Note. It hurts to read what the left is doing to our Jesus April 30, 2004 First a march for abortion. Now, Jesus is gay. You can sit back and pretend that none of this can possibly be happening to our church. How much farther are we going to let it go? I can see our leadership in the near future voting to accept the "possibility" that Jesus is gay. We have been voting to affirm him as Savior. Why not this also? This is the problem with tolerance. The left will never be satisfied until the day comes that we proclaim homosexuality is not a sin, until we accept the fact that Jesus just might be gay. Why not? If it is not a sin then we should be fully capable of accepting him as a homosexual. We must always be on guard for what the left is trying to accomplish. It is incrementalism. Satan is patient. Giving in even a small amount will do us no good, because it will never stop. Once one victory is accomplished by the gay agenda, it will move on to the next battle. We are at war. It is the only way to look at it now. We are being bombarded from all sides. Abortion, homosexuality: It will not stop there. Sin does not know any bounds. It will go as far as we are willing to let it go. I understand now the enormous responsibility we face today. It has to stop with us. If we give in, I just cannot fathom what our next generation is going to have to deal with. It appears from all the letters to The Layman that many of us are ready to do something. It is time for us to get organized and to take this seriously. It is our duty. It hurts me to the core of my being to have to read what the left is doing to our Jesus. Jesus gave his life for us. It is time that we give all that we can to him. Our generation must not pass the buck to the next. Dave Hankins South Bend The issues that divide are not inconsequential April 29, 2004
Those who have disagreed with the trend toward radically transforming historic Biblical interpretations and the dismantling of ordination standards have been the ones accused of being schismatic, when in fact the schism has already taken place. We cannot, in good conscience continue to fellowship with those with whom we more than disagree. The issues that divide are not inconsequential, they are substantive and the Beverly Heights session has dared to point out just how substantive they are. If the action the Beverly Heights session has taken is emulated by other sessions, breaking fellowship may be just the beginning of an eventual move toward organic separation. Consider the cosmic consequences of what we do for the Lord, while regrettable, in the face of open defiance of the Word of God and our constitution, it may be the best course of action to take. Dr. James H. Logan Jr., pastor Bread of Life Christian Ministry Charlotte, N.C. God bless Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church April 29, 2004 Right on and God bless Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church. Someone had to be the first to move off dead center, apparently God has counted Beverly Heights of Pittsburgh worthy of this distinction. God will heal the PCUSA. Ken Love, pastor Kerr Presbyterian Church Verona, Pa. And the award goes to Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church April 29, 2004 On behalf of the Old Gray Dog Foundation, I award the session of the Beverly Heights Presbyterian Church our Troubler of Israel Award for their courage to stand up to ungodly authority. Well done, good and faithful servants! James E. Tuckett The Old Gray Dog Leadership's view of God bears little resemblance to the God of Scripture April 29, 2004 The glue that has held us together is crumbling. The thought of redefining our unity, with the liberal faction joining the Episcopalians and the more traditional minded joining the EPC or PCA is truly liberating. It will not easily happen. For, when it comes to religion, we identify most comfortably with the rich young ruler. Those beholden to the PCUSA structure are not about to risk their power and status, and frankly, those of us in the pews are really more comfortable with a liberal God, slow to judge and lacking in wrath. It's just that it is hard to remain devoted to such an unbelievably compliant God. Surely, he'll understand if we choose to play golf on Sunday. So we drift away to our earthly pursuits. One searches Scripture in vain for "That All May Freely Serve." Just exactly how did "Take up your cross and follow me" get twisted into "Hold on to your lust and your personal view of God and minister in my name?" Indeed, the leadership of the PCUSA has given itself over to a view of God that bears little resemblance to the God of Scripture. The shenanigans of Stated Clerk Clifton Kirkpatrick bring us to a defining moment. If he can be defeated, then there is hope that the PCUSA can be revived from within. If not, then we delude ourselves if we remain, and the moment of truth and liberation will have arrived. John Cowan Cartersville, Ga. All desire a Presbyterian witness to continue in Gary April 29, 2004 I appreciate The Layman's attempt to cover a complicated story such at the future of First United Presbyterian Church of Gary, Ind. However, your attempt to cast this in the issue of liberal and conservative by speaking about Herb Valentine and not the nationally historical sociological/economic issues that Gary has had to endure as the reason for the decline is poor reporting. (Yes, I realize that you never said that specifically but it is surely implied; if not why bring it up at all). It is my understanding that the relationship with Assemblies of God Church was initiated by the former pastor who shared with the presbytery that his dream of them taking over the physical plant to allow the congregation's money to fund a pastor and ministries. I do not know what type of mission funding was given to that congregation in the past but I do know that it has received mission funding from various committees and entities of the presbytery over the past 10 years. Also the history of the congregation includes the merger of several other Presbyterian congregations from Gary that became First United Presbyterian. For a number of years, at the least, the presbytery has struggled to make a distinction between a church building a vibrant congregation. The desire is continue a ministry and a congregation even if it is not in an historic building. All desire a Presbyterian witness to continue in Gary but it takes more creativity than just throwing money into a building that hinders more ministry than it enhances. At the present the congregation chose their building over pastoral leadership and ministries, but that is not the end. Together we will grow as we discern the Spirit's calling us to a new form of ministry in Gary, Indiana, and through the congregation of First United Presbyterian Church. Matt Sauer Winfield, Ind. How can anyone with a belief in the commandments of Christ be Presbyterian today? April 29, 2004 Reading the account of the April 25 march in Washington, D.C., sponsored by the PCUSA and the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC), "held to oppose any restrictions on abortion" left me wondering why the Presbyterian Church (USA) still bothers to call itself Christian and how the "Reverend" Elenora Giddings Ivory, director of the Washington Office, can consider herself a minister of the gospel. If there is some passage in the Bible which says that it is acceptable to murder babies in the womb who are too defenseless to protect themselves, it has escaped my attention. The Washington Office, which used its Web site to invite women to join the demonstration claimed it was "To ensure that all women have the right to choose to have or not to have children, with reproductive health options that are safe, affordable and accessible." There is a choice that can insure this: it is called abstinence. According to the article, Elenora Giddings Ivory, in an April 27 e-mail sent nationwide, said that she was "thrilled that Judith and Bill Moyers believe in highlighting the importance of RCRC's unique and important role in the pro-choice movement." I have a one word reaction to a church that calls itself Christian, which can ordain a woman such as Giddings Ivory, and can describe the wanton murder of millions of defenseless babies as "choice": disgusting. Two years ago, after more than 35 years as a Presbyterian with service as both deacon and elder, I am glad that I am no longer a member of the Presbyterian Church. How can anyone with an ounce of Christian compassion or a belief in the commandments of Christ be a Presbyterian today? When will those of you still in the PCUSA listen to your own conscience and either regain control of the PCUSA or resign your membership? I am sick of the endless discussions of "pro-choice" merits while every year another one and a half million babies are slaughtered with less concern than is shown to cattle in a stockyard. Jack Kime Maryville, Ill. Jesus suffered immensely to redeem us April 29, 2004 Thanks for an incredible article. Jesus suffered immensely to redeem us. He paid a price we are unable to understand. I just want to thank you for showing that. Jacob Nordberg Behavior of the Washington Office is arrogant and irresponsible April 28, 2004 The recent sponsorship by the Washington Office of the Presbyterian Church (USA) of the mass pro-abortion rally and carnival is the latest and most egregious evidence of that office's selective advocacy of General Assembly positions. The General Assembly has officially found merit to both the pro-life and pro-choice positions on abortion, and yet the Washington Office has never supported the annual March for Life. Indeed, the Washington Office has never advocated any position on abortion other than the most dogmatic pro-choice position. The behavior of the Washington Office is, in my view, arrogant and irresponsible. Their reckless advocacy for abortion on demand is an excellent argument for making only restricted or directed contributions to our denomination. The session of the church I serve has done what it can to prevent one dime of our faithful congregation's monies from supporting the Washington Office. We are directing our General Assembly level support to specific extra commitment opportunity ministries that faithfully proclaim the Gospel, and do not advocate killing the unborn. All congregations have the ability to do this, and I encourage them to prayerfully consider this action. Rev. John B. Erthein Elderton, Pa. Were is the baby's choice? April 28, 2004 It amazes me that people that claim to be "born-again" Christians cannot see the logic that any type of abortion is just plain murder. Whether secular or Biblical the observation of life should be the answer. If you plant one of God's seeds in the ground, such as a tree seedling, and it just begins to show signs of sprouting, and we destroy it aren't we killing the tree? Why can't people even apply such simple logic as this to God's method of reproduction of human beings. I'm getting very upset with the women that parade around holding up signs that show coat hangers that say murder. It was an abortionist doctor that started that rumor and he has since confessed to it. By the way, he no longer does abortions. "Woman's Choice," now ain't that a calamitous acronym? Since the baby begins developing at conception where on earth is the baby's choice? Of course, we have heard this all before but I remember that God said he blinded them. I feel sorry for them and I guess I should (will) join the ranks that pray for them to change their ways and come to Jesus! Charles B. Lindvall PCUSA listed with Communist Party USA, International Socialists and NOW April 28, 2004 So, the Presbyterian Church (USA) is listed as a co-sponsor of the March For Women's lives. By whose authority was this done? Was this a policy decision of the General Assembly or General Assembly Council? Or, was this again an out of control functionary (like the head of the Washington Office) exceeding her authority and dishonestly promoting her own ideology as an official position of the church? Okay, Mr. Kirkpatrick, where is your voice on this one? I thought the PCUSA was neutral on the question of abortion, calling it a matter of conscience? Has that changed? If so, when did you plan to pronounce this act by fiat to the church? I actually went to the march Web site and read the list of sponsors. I am appalled and embarrassed to think that people now believe that the PCUSA would willingly align itself with such a group of partisan secular/humanist deconstructionists! We were listed right up there with such fine organizations as "Bitch Magazine," The Communist Party USA, International Socialists and the ever popular and omnipresent NOW. O joy! And where is our stated clerk? Why has he not spoken up to correct this error? Mr. Kirkpatrick must not be allowed to continue his role as chief enabler for every left-wing partisan while working to nullify the efforts of evangelical reformed Christians who follow our traditional doctrine and hold to the essential tenets. We can begin the process of correcting these failures of leadership by electing the Rev. Dr. L. "Rus" Howard as stated clerk in June. Rus will bring Christ-centered, spirit-led leadership for the whole church. He will be faithful to the reality that Christ alone is Lord and the only means to salvation; that Scripture is the authoritative Word of God, and that we are called to lead lives of holiness as informed by God's Word. Further, he will work to ensure that the church as a whole reflects those truths. Won't that be refreshing. James C. Yearsley Pittsburgh, Pa. |
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