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| February
2004 letters to the editor Archives of letters to the editor  |
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| Presbytery
destroyed its own case with one word February 27, 2004 If the quote in John Adams' article of February 25, 2004 is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt that it is not) then I believe that the Presbytery of Heartland has destroyed its own case with one little word … paying. So what does it mean, to pay? According to Webster's New World Dictionary the verb to pay derives from the Latin parare, meaning, to pacify. It goes on to define the word pay as "to give what is due," and "to give what is due or owed." So the Presbytery of Heartland's inclusion of … "including paying of per capita" … in it resolution of June 17, 2003, defines its intent and lays the foundation for its own defeat. My reading of their resolution shows that a session must pay what it owes, which is contrary to every interpretation of our denomination's history, tradition and constitution. Now benevolence is a wholly different matter. It is derived from the Latin, bene – meaning well, and volens – meaning to wish. It is defined as an inclination to do good, or to do a kindly, charitable act or give a gift. There is a broad gulf between the act of paying what is owed and the giving of a gift. In one there is no choice, in the other there is. Maybe that is why G-10.0102i was written in exactly that way. Sessions are given the power and responsibility to choose where their gifts are to go. As I read it, nowhere in our constitution are presbyteries given the power or authority to direct or force a session to pay per capita, nor is per capita "owed" to them. This case will be a defining moment in our denomination. My prayers are with the pastor, session and congregation of Paola as they sally forth to do battle with their Heartland Goliath. Mike Schrowang, elder Londonderry Presbyterian Church Londonderry, N.H. Silent majority need to become more vocal February 27, 2004 To Rev. Williamson, I extend my heartfelt support and prayers. Disenfranchisement comes to my mind when considering the "railroading" of his "trial" and "validation." The silent majority's need to become more vocal and there needs to be a reclaiming of the historic church to which we faithfully give years of service in his name. Know that he will be kept in not only my daily prayers but the prayers of the church I serve (The Knoxville United Church, Pittsburgh, Pa.). God be with you. Rev. Gilbert Fitzsimmons, Ph.D. Will Presbyterians counter something that might be the work of God? February 27, 2004 I just read what The Outlook had to say about the Passion film. My wife and I have yet to see it, but we will. Following is the email response to The Outlook. "Leave it, once again, to the Presbyterians to counter something that just might be the work of God in the world and church PCUSA. If it is not of God, then nothing will come of it; rather, if it is of God then how can it be fought against. (I think I read that someplace; or something like it.)" Art Kalafut, pastor Monmouth Community Presbyterian Church Fresno, Calif. PCUSA has made world its god February 27, 2004 I just read the Online Guest Viewpoint Second Thoughts on 'The Passion'. Once again, I hear the world's voice being parroted by the church. In a time when the PCUSA has made the world its god and has bowed down to it, we criticize others for reaching out. We have pastors in our pulpits "preaching" that Jesus may not be the only way and that we must be more tolerant and inclusive of others. We put down the service of others by saying, "No, for we must not try to be wiser than God who does not want his people to be taught by means of lifeless idols, but through the living preaching of his Word." We have become the den of vipers Christ talked about: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness" (Mat. 23:27). Marc Karasek Norcross, Ga. Church has paid more attention to Paul and less attention to Jesus' preaching February 27, 2004 I thoroughly agree with Rev. Scott Nesbitt's letter in this month's edition. The decision to "defrock" Williamson is long overdue. Anyone that can say that "inclusivity is inane" is not proclaiming the kingdom of God that Jesus proclaimed. I don't have any way of knowing whether the process itself was done appropriately. My biggest question for you people who think you are the only ones that know the truth and that the rest of us are "not Christian" or not "Bible-believing" is how you know that your brains work any better than ours? Are you somehow smarter than we are? If homosexuality is so horrible, why didn't Jesus say anything about it? Yet, Jesus did speak against divorce. But you don't split the church over the issue of ordaining divorced ministers. You say Paul spoke against homosexuality – well, Paul also said women should be silent in the churches. Do you follow that exhortation? And if homosexuality is a sin (note that I am not saying that it is), but if it is, what makes it worse than any other sin that we all commit every day of our lives? Jesus' entire ministry was devoted to including the outsiders that the Pharisees excluded – sound familiar? Why don't you just call yourselves Pharisees – that's exactly how you are acting. I also notice that you are promoting The Passion of the Christ. That movie is just a sickeningly violent version of current pop theology. If the gospel writers thought that the blood and gore was the main point, they would have said more than a sentence or two about it. Read your Bibles and pay attention to what Matthew, Mark, Luke and John emphasized in their versions of the gospels. Even Paul, for whom "the folly of the cross" was the major portion of the message, does not concentrate on the blood and gore of the crucifixion. For Paul, what is important is Christ crucified and risen, and that we follow Christ's example. Did you ever notice that Jesus preached the kingdom of God, and Paul preached the cross? Somewhere along the line, the church has paid more and more attention to Paul, and less and less attention to what Jesus preached. That seems dangerous to me. When we pick and choose what we want to pay attention to and what we want to ignore, we are editing the Bible. We need to be very much aware that we are doing that whenever we interpret the Bible. I do not believe that anyone at The Layman is aware of that. That scares me! Melissa Boling former member PCUSA and 3rd year student at Vanderbilt Divinity School, preparing for ordained ministry We must be in prayer for our land to be healed February 27, 2004 Just because the Bible illustrates to us that there are dysfunctional families, it does not mean dysfunction is to be a norm in families. The Bible illustrates to us how sin destroys families when people turn their back to God. We have been witnessing this since World War II, and now the family is in danger of being re-defined – not one man with one woman in covenant relationship with our Triune God, but as has been witnessed by Sodom by the Bay, San Francisco. Same sexes now can marry illegally, thinking they are legally married. Romans chapters 1 to 3 teaches otherwise, and one day God's judgment will prevail. The body of Christ must continually be in prayer for our land to be healed, and the body of Christ continually needs to demonstrate Christ like living along with the preaching and teaching of the Word of God, if we are to see many come to Christ as Savior and Lord. Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del. Dooling deserves the Woman of Faith award February 27, 2004 The article about Mrs. Sylvia Dooling has come at the most appropriate time. She is a woman the Pakistani Presbyterians respect for her love and concern for Christian faith and for her work. During 2003 we the Presbyterians of Pakistan wanted to write the officials of the Presbyterian Church USA to give the "Woman of Faith Award" to Mrs. Sylvia Dooling, but she wrote us that she does not want it because her reward is with the Lord Jesus Christ. We the Pakistani Presbyterians ask the Presbyterians in USA to ensure that she gets "Woman of Faith Award" during forthcoming General Assembly of PCUSA. At the same time we are praying for our sister Sylvia that the Lord may save her from punitive actions from PCUSA for her Christian faith like Rev. Parker T. Williamson. May the Lord Jesus Christ bless the ministry of VOW and Sylvia Dooling. Bishop Timotheus Nasir The United Presbyterian Church of Pakistan Gujranwala, Pakistan. Kaseman case factor in forming EPC February 25, 2004 Your article on Kenyon and Kaseman was timely. I recall Dr. Andrew Jumper's article "A Tale of Two Pastors" from the Presbyterian Journal in the mid-1980's making the same juxtaposition with the same observed ironies. A correction might be necessary. To my knowledge, R. C. Sproul, a former faculty colleague at Reformed Seminary, has never been a resident faculty member of Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia. He might have been at Westminster College in western Pennsylvania. An omission should also be noted. The Kaseman matter was a material factor in the establishment of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, home of a great number of former UPC(USA) and PC(US) congregations. Our position on granting the liberty of conscience that those such as Rev. Kenyon desired while maintaining fundamental orthodoxy has resulted in our becoming the third largest Presbyterian body in terms of active membership in North America today. Michael J. Glodo, stated clerk Evangelical Presbyterian Church John Calvin on peace, unity and purity February 25, 2004 I think the words of John Calvin are worth recalling when we consider the peace, unity, and purity of the Church. In his time, many went willingly to their deaths in defense of the purity of the Church. The issues might change, but the conflict is the same. In commenting on Luke 1:17 ("And he shall go before him with the spirit and power of Elijah, that he may bring back the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, that he may make ready a people prepared for the Lord"), Calvin comments as follows: "But as men frequently enter into mutual conspiracies which drive them farther from God, the angel explains, at the same time, the nature of that bringing back which he predicts, the disobedient to the wisdom of the just. This deserves our attention, that we may not foolishly allow ourselves to be classed with ungodly men under the false pretense of harmony. Peace is a sounding and imposing term, and, whenever the Papists meet with it in Scripture, they eagerly seize upon it for the purpose of raising dislike against us, as if we, who are endeavoring to withdraw the world from its base revolt, and bring it back to Christ, were the authors of divisions. But this passage affords a fine exposure of their folly, when the angel explains the manner of a genuine and proper conversion; and declares its support and link to be the wisdom of the just. Accursed then be the peace and unity by which men agree among themselves apart from God." (emphasis added). (Commentary on a Harmony of the Evangelists, vol. I, pg. 22) Josh M. Thompson Fort Worth, Texas Jesus doesn't have to be approved annually February 25, 2004 I have been taught that we will be subject to persecution for our belief in Jesus Christ. Some of us endure more of it than others. However, I never expected to be persecuted for my beliefs in my own Presbyterian denomination. Church should be one place that we all can go to be supported and encouraged for being a Christian. Not that church should be a type of support group, but in a way it is. I want to go to a place where I am in agreement with others and feel like I belong, to be lifted up and inspired and to be supported. I need to go to a place where I feel some sense of protection from this world, even for just a short time. Yet, our national leadership in the Presbyterian Church (USA) makes me feel like an outcast – like I am not wanted anymore, that my views have somehow become radical. I never expected to be questioned or having to affirm my belief in Jesus as our only savior, to have to vote on that every year. Jesus is not like a president of a corporate board that has to be approved each year. The liberal faction in our denomination cannot seem to understand or care about my concern for the direction the church is heading. Whatever happened to the concept of group consciousness? As a Christian, I am at times going to face criticism and derision from non-believers. It makes life more difficult to have to face those things from fellow Christians. David Hankins Ridgedale Presbyterian Church South Bend, Ind. There's little reason for optimism February 25, 2004 Just to remark at the total optimism of John H. Adams concerning the overture to relieve presbyteries of their burden to make up for any per capita funds they do not receive from their respective churches. Wouldn't it be nice if those to whom the overture is directed could be expected to "come, let us reason together, saith the Lord," as brother Adams suggests? However, I personally expect overtures to pass that will go just the opposite direction of the one Rocky Grove Avenue is sending to the General Assembly. I believe churches will HAVE to pay their per capita or get out, and that is when the cold water will hit the faces of those of us who still have glimmers of hope of changing the mind set of GA and those who already think lay people should have no say and no way to counter the ongoing heresies foisted upon us through the denomination by her rogue government. I'm not so optimistic. I remember Pearl Harbor. I remember 9/11. And I remember 1/31 in Asheville, North Carolina/Western North Carolina Presbytery. Glenda Smith Don't give up on San Francisco and Bay area February 25, 2004 Keep up the good work! I find it amazing how our educated "leaders" in the Bay area have become the Jezebel of the New Testament. Don't give up on San Francisco and the surrounding Bay area. Please know that we are many who believe and support what The Layman and confessing churches stand for. There are true believers in God's Word and in Jesus Christ our risen Savior even (a silenced majority) in Calvary Presbyterian. I am amazed at how easy it is for our leaders to discount what is not the fruit of the spirit. Ephesians, Corinthians and Romans all speak about the old life and new life. I cannot see anywhere that those who come to Christ are told to keep what ever behavior they had and put it above God's holiness, forgiveness and mercy, especially when it touches on a cultural issue. Perhaps they should reread it again and again. The homosexual (10%) population claims special – rights in God's church, not their church – full of arrogance and pride, the very things the Old and New Testamenst teach against. Why get special privileges and rights because of a behavioral difference? We are dealing in God's world and not dealing in the current culture of our world. There is no physical impairment and it is not the same as what they are claiming is prejudice. We as true followers of Christ do love them as Christ loves them, in hopes that they do as we all have: come to Christ with great remorse in our hearts as sinners, but not to get special privileges. All human beings are sinners before God – no exceptions! I pray that those who come before God realize that we live in a culture that would have it otherwise, as in thousands of years before us, but we are not to be a part of it. We are to live differently as humble and thankful before God in Christ. We believe that as Christ's followers we love the sinner and not the sin as Jesus did with the prostitute. He showed us that if one is remorseful and accepts Christ fully, the Holy Spirit will help them with their personal struggle, as we all try to walk the purer, holy path of Christ. T.J. Tellier Calvary Presbyterian Church San Francisco 'May your grieving be a source of spiritual growth' February 23, 2004 I, the clerk of session, have been asked to prepare a letter from the elders of Myrtle Grove Evangelical Presbyterian Church. We wanted to share with you the matters that follow. Our unified heart grieves with you over the divisive difficulties being experienced by all our Christian brothers and sisters in the PCUSA and in other denominations claiming the name of Jesus. We are in prayer for you. We realize that division is not of God. The agony, of heart, that you are all suffering in these last days is deeply sensed by us. We cry out for unity in Christ. May our loving Lord, in his mercy, give us, his children, a deeper spiritual awareness of the significance of the price he paid to gain the unity he expects of us. And in these last days, may this new awareness bring all true Christian believers … of whatever denomination … into oneness. As best we can, we, here, share your pain; yet, I don't think we could ever sense completely what you are going through. May your grieving be a source of spiritual growth. Yet, what some mean for harm; God means for good … to his children. We cherish with you, the desire to adhere to Biblical purity and to maintain the character and quality of our Reformed theology. Stand strong in him and in his truth, and as you know, he'll never leave you nor forsake you. Our love in Christ goes out to you. We will continue to pray for you for his strength, which is made perfect in weakness, and for his peace to keep your heats and minds. Somehow it will all work out. In his service, John Gonzalez, clerk of session Myrtle Grove Evangelical Presbyterian Church Wilmington, N.C. Membership loss staggering example of flawed theology February 23, 2004 Coming off a banner year of membership loss the leaders of the PCUSA are now planning for 40,000-plus losses for the next two years. It is a staggering example of flawed theology, apathetic members and poor leadership. The ship is certainly sinking, while the captain, crew and the passengers party late into the night. It is true that God is in charge but it is clear that we have well exercised our freedom not to obey his commands. We will reap our reward. When will God's people say enough is enough? Apparently, not soon enough. John Cowan Cartersville, Ga. PCUSA should move toward a 'unity out of diversity' concept February 23, 2004 Consensus decision-making as compared to Roberts Rules of Order is a tool from Satan's tool box. It lends itself to unholy results not representative of the righteous majority. The idea of unity in diversity which is being pushed upon our task force by malevolent external sources is fomented by using the consensus model. I believe we should be focusing on and moving with more alacrity towards a "unity out of diversity" concept in which we take and use the good, righteous and holy things from our diverse resources and flush the bad, unrighteous and unholy things into the sewer where they belong. Only then will we be able to hold our heads high in the service of our Lord in the PCUSA instead of struggling with our souls to break out of it. Ray Harper, elder Saint Stephen Presbyterian Church Chatsworth, Calif. Actions call into question the sanctity of marriage February 23, 2004 The recent actions by the mayor of the city of San Francisco and the Massachusetts Supreme Court are calling into question the sanctity of marriage. My wife and I would like to call on you, as the voice of Presbyterian lay people, to contact all congregations in the state of California and ask them to pray strongly on this issue. May we also suggest that our pastors and the people call, write, or e-mail their representatives and voice their opposition to this challenge of God's word? James R. Calvert Please continue your work for us February 23, 2004 As a congregationalist (National Association of Congregational Christian Churches) I have been inspired and upheld in my beliefs by the work of Rev. Williamson and the Lay Committee, as well as by your publication The Layman. Please continue your work for us Christians who value freedom and purity in the churches of the various protestant denominations. My renewal check to the Lay Committee is in the mail. Barbara B. Zaiser 'Stay and fight' or 'Gracious separation:' Which is more helpful? February 23, 2004 Parker Williamson is one of my heroes. I admire his courage, his ability to articulate, and the power of his beliefs. [Have you ever noticed when people start with praise, there is a "but" coming soon?] But the deck is stacked against us. Some 700 "Louisville shepherds" will be "helping" 550 delegates at the next GA. The liberals are in control our educational resources, and the bureaucrats are in control of government. (Make no mistake about it, these folks are fighting for their beliefs and their jobs. Time is on their side. They are in no mood to compromise.) "Fidelity and Chastity" is the only remnant of our former Calvinist faith remaining. With the exodus of evangelicals, one every 13 minutes, it is just a matter of time before that, too, will be exorcised. In the context of relational, Biblical theology, the question we must answer is this: What course of action is most helpful to the sanctification of believers, and which course of action will build up the ministry of reconciliation in the Church of Christ? Today, we are offered two solutions to this crisis: continue the old strategy of Stay and Fight, trying to reform our denomination from within; or Gracious Separation. Which is more helpful? Which will build up? Will it be more helpful to people called to do God's work to graciously separate or continue to stay and fight? Which will serve to build up the true Church better, gracious separation or continue to stay and fight? Given the alternatives, Gracious Separation is the faithful choice. James Tuckett The Old Gray Dog 'What is wrong with inclusiveness?' February 23, 2004 ..."inclusiveness"... You write this in your editorial as if it were an abomination, although, no doubt, in your mind this reference is. Judge not, lest ye be judged. "Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold the Judge is standing right at the door." Who else should we keep out? Who do you think you are? Are you better than another? Did Jesus not abide with outcasts? You speak of "this contest" as if there must be a winner and a loser. Why? What is wrong with inclusiveness? Hear the word of the LORD, you who tremble at his word: "Your brothers who hate you, who exclude you for my name's sake, Have said, 'Let the LORD be glorified, that we may see your joy. But they will be put to shame.'" I am from North Carolina and I must confess, I am judging you. Please reply if possible. Tom Gates Are we listening to the same Holy Spirit? February 23, 2004 I agree 100 percent with your letter. I joined Ridgedale in South Bend, Ind., three years ago because they had a pastor who preached from and about God's word. Jack Volkers is truly a man called to preach God's word. We thought we could take one church at a time back to being God's church. Now I'm not sure that is possible. If they can read the same Bible that I do and try to lead God's church away from God's way. They cannot be listing to the same Holy Sprit that I try to. The Bible states man and woman not man and man or woman and woman. We are supposed to love the sinner and hate the sin. How could the world go on if we were all in same sex union's? God knew what he was doing when he said in Gen.1:28: "Be fruitful and increase, fill the earth." Hank Adams South Bend, Ind. Corinthian congregation chastised for mixing in false teachers February 23, 2004 The Session of The Presbyterian Church of Fair Oaks 11427 Fair Oaks Blvd. Fair Oaks, California Republic 95628-5197 February 22, 2004 RE: Today's Sermon in the sanctuary – Applicability to per-capita issue Ladies and Gentlemen: Today's sermon was on 2nd Corinthians chapter 6:11-7:1. It is chastising the Corinthian congregation for mixing in false teachers and accepting that which does not follow "in Christ" doctrine. It stresses not to be yoked to non-Christians or evil doers. Such as would being yoked an oxen and an donkey, it would work very poorly. Then it was pointed out that even a small contamination would spoil the uprightness of a congregation if even a small amount of sinful conduct was allowed, likened to a beaten egg white would not turn out correctly if a small amount of yolk or dirt in the dish were to occur. It was suggested that one read several different versions of a Bible for a better view of the actual meaning. As in the KJV "cleanse ourselves of all filthiness of flesh and spirit," and the NIV says "let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit," and the NAS says "let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit," and the Amplified says, "let us cleanse ourselves from everything that contaminates and defiles body and spirit." I would think that was quite clear in regard to support for our national officers who contaminate and thus defile our formerly great denomination. Interestingly it was the same pastor as acting moderator of session that signed your letter casting me out for not wanting to support the national officers, that gave this sermon. Thus another great parallel between the New Testament direction is applied to today's situations. Dale Creasey Fair Oaks, Calif. 'I stand with the session of Grace Presbyterian Church' February 20, 2004 Thank you for the very detailed article, "Session determines Kirkpatrick refusing to carry out responsibilities of his office" (The Layman Online; Feb. 19). I personally stand with the session of Grace Presbyterian Church in Montclair. I believe our session does, too. And I sincerely respect the Grace session for taking the public stance this article describes. Now, while I believe I understand the several quotes from the session, in the one which I believe to be their most recent to or concerning Rev. Kirkpatrick, I was struck by one small sentence: "In contrast, Rev. Kirkpatrick's hands-off approach has proven ineffectual." Unfortunately, that statement is true only for those of us seeking to retain the effectiveness of the constitution. For those in the Hudson River, Baltimore and my own presbyteries who continue to move vigorously ahead with agendas which are very much anti-constitutional, Rev. Kirkpatrick's approach is very effectual. While I do not know the stated clerk personally, I do know many who have had a part in educating me on his approach to his position – including the Presbyterian Lay Committee and its publication. I do trust this insight. No, rather than saying the PC(USA)'s stated clerk is ineffectual, I believe we must see his effectiveness in the light of the spiritual battle in which the world, the PC(USA) and each of us find ourselves. It is plainly too restrained to say he is simply "ineffectual." Greg Leaman Oostburg, Wisc. P.S.: I would still like to see an unbiased report from the committee that nominated the stated clerk for re-election, which shows all the input it received concerning his past performance and the advisability of re-nominating him. Please? Perhaps stated clerk's job should be eliminated February 20, 2004 If, as Rev. Clifton Kirkpatrick claims, he has no authority to enforce the Book of Order of the Presbyterian Church (USA) by intervening in church cases "before, during or after their adjudication," perhaps the job of stated clerk should be eliminated. With the GAC making executive decisions, preparing the budget, setting agendas – what functions does this highly-paid ecclesiastical bureaucrat perform? If we can't think of anything essential, why have a stated clerk? Scott Kelly It's all about leadership February 20, 2004 Grace Presbyterian Church has assessed the stated clerk's position correctly - one of defiance of the Constitution of the PCUSA. This writer proposes three things that the stated Clerk should do: Lead, follow or get out of the way. Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del. A response to Ms. Kloetzel February 20, 2004 The Biblical illiteracy of so many people in leadership positions truly grieves me. The latest example is provided by Judith Kloetzel, Moderator of Presbyterian Women for Balitmore Presbytery and member of the presbytery council. She states: "Would Christ have turned anyone away? If we believe in him, we have everlasting life. You are judging where you have no right to judge. It is a matter between the person accused and our Creator, the Triune God." I would ask Ms. Kloetzel, is 1 Corinthians 5: 1 - 13 in her Bible? If so, does she simply choose to ignore it? Does she disagree with the apostle that as believers we have not only the right, but the DUTY to judge such matters in the Church? Paul states: "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. "Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. "For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? Do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person." I would ask Ms. Kloetzel in response to the apostle Paul, "What say ye?" Paul C. von Wedel former elder, PC(USA) About Judith Kloetzel's letter February 20, 2004 Judith Kloetzel is also making a judgment based on her own prejudices. However, unlike The Layman's statement, her judgment does not have the three thousand years of testing and challenge behind it that the Bible and church history represents. Rather, it is a judgment based on a philosophy that absolutizes the perspective of a privileged upper middle class that has been well insulated from any such wisdom as the experiences of Bible and tradition have taught. As such, it ultimately reflects a view that cannot help but be self-idolatry. Bruce M. Williams San Francisco Another response to Judith Kloetzel's letter February 20, 2004 I find Judith Kloetzel's brief letter (regarding happenings in Baltimore Presbytery) interesting as she claims, "It is a matter between the person accused and our Creator, the Triune God." This position totally dismisses the corporate discernment that God requires of the body of Christ, the Church. (Matthew 18:15-17; 1 Corinthians 5:3-5, 12) While we are rightfully forbidden to condemn (judge) others, we just as firmly are expected to discern (judge) right from wrong, sin from non-sin. The Greek word "to judge" is used in Scripture both ways, to condemn and to discern. She, like so many others, erroneously applies the prohibitive sense to what Scripture actually requires of us. Unfortunately, it also is true that some misunderstand and condemn when that is forbidden. She asks "Would Christ have turned anyone away?" I'm inclined to think of the rich young man who, upon hearing Jesus' counsel, went away sorrowful. I'm not sure the point is Jesus' turning away or not. The more important matter is people turning away, rejecting the Savior. The rich young man wanted life on his terms, not Jesus'. It is so today. Submission and repentance is not acceptable to some. In terms of the events of recent weeks and months (ECUSA, Massachusetts and San Francisco, to mention a few), non-submission and non-repentance is growing by leaps and bounds. Rev. Steven L. Seng First Presbyterian Church Wellsburg, W.V. Are we in the last days? February 20, 2004 It seems that everywhere you turn these days, in newspapers and on TV, both the U.S. culture and its Christian churches are under increasing attack from within and without. We are seeing the increasing rise of conduct warned about by the Apostle Paul in his second letter to Timothy, which states: "You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them! For among them are those who make their way into households and captivate silly women, overwhelmed by their sins and swayed by all kinds of desires, who are always being instructed and can never arrive at a knowledge of the truth. As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these people, of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith, also oppose the truth." Don't Paul's words sum up what we're seeing today both here and abroad? How else can you describe the actions of the mayor of San Francisco, an elected official, totally disobeying the law by allowing hundreds of gay marriages to take place? How else can you describe the liberal presbyteries' total disregard of our constitution by allowing unrepentant gays to be ordained and promoting homosexual unions? How else can you describe the PCUSA's falling all over itself to be politically correct, and therefore stand for nothing? What's behind this activity? I don't remember the Church being attacked in the past as it is today. Is it because the Evil One, the "Prince of the Power of the Air," realizes that his time is short? Is it because we truly are in the last days that we are seeing the increasing rise of evil in the Church? Will persecution of believers become more sinister and treacherous? I believe that Christ provides the answer to these questions in the 24th chapter of Mathew as follows: "Beware that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah! and they will lead many astray. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places: all this is but the beginning of the birth pangs. "Then they will hand you over to be tortured and will put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of my name. Then many will fall away, and they will betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations; and then the end will come." Scripture tells us that we are facing a foe that we cannot negotiate with or defeat by ourselves. We must gird ourselves for the battles to come because it's only going to get worse! That is why I do not believe that the Presbyterian Church (USA) should or can survive in its present form. It's too late! We haven't taken the time to assure the education of our children and adults with right doctrine. We have been afraid to stand up for our historic faith because we might offend someone. We have all sinned greatly by allowing the apostates (a minority) to take power within our Church. What we can do is get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness and deliverance. As Paul states, we must avoid the apostates, leave them in their sins, and separate as quickly as possible to prevent even further contamination. Then after the separation, we must take the necessary and unavoidable steps to regroup and insure it will not happen again. The Presbyterian Church is a Reformation church with a proud history of faith and service, but it now must be reformed. John Blaikie Centereach, N.Y. We've left the PCUSA because of our stance on John 3:16 February 20, 2004 OK, my family has now joined the First United Methodist Church in Lynn Haven, Fla., as we were excommunicated from the First Presbyterian Church because of our stance on John 3:16, the absolute Word of God in the Bible, our stand on homosexual relationships, and that, above all, we are sinners in our relationship with God. Fortunately, our new church family and the ministers, both young and old, are in agreement with our views even though the UMC has the same problems as the Presbyterian Church. Now, we are confronted with the "marriage" of our brothers and sisters in San Francisco, most likely Massachusetts, and now Chicago. I am a firm believer that we are quickly approaching the demise of our most wonderful United States and the religious fundamentals that we were founded upon and, if Jesus appeared in the skies today, I would not be amazed. Oh yes, Sodom and Gomorrah, here we come. I just hope that I am not tempted to look back. According to the health folks, salt is not good for you. May God continue to bless each of you. Sandra Weber former elder in the PCUSA Peeking in the Pandora's Box of per capita for General Assembly February 20, 2004 Assuming someone's got a fantastic rationalization for it, I'm trying to figure out why this year's around 550 commissioners to the General Assembly need the GAC's signed, sealed and to be delivered 420 resource persons and franchise staff, along with other judicatory types of around 300, for support. That's 720 to 550 (give or take whomever will be given or taken). Dang! Either this year's commissioners are especially needy (lame) or somebody's got an agenda about something that requires more than one-on-one lobbying. Regardless, the stewardship of these numbers is staggering within the context of Matthew 25; unless there's going to be a lot of street evangelism in Richmond. I don't get it; or maybe I do and I'm just dropping some hints. Robert R. Kopp Loves Park, Ill. Isn't it time to seriously consider 'gracious separation?' February 19, 2004 Isn't it time to seriously consider "gracious separation" and retain a legal team to that effect? The two theological camps are just too far apart. To try and make it work will just produce many unhappy Presbyterians. John Almquist Support missionaries with per capita, spike Kirkpatrick's guns February 19, 2004 If everyone restricts his per capita to supporting the missionaries we support, Kirkpatrick's guns will be spiked. If we elect his challenger, he's ancient history. Frank Elkins Salt Lake City, Utah About The Layman's article on Baltimore Presbytery February 19, 2004 Would Christ have turned anyone away? If we believe in him, we have everlasting life. You are judging where you have no right to judge. It is a matter between the person accused and our Creator, the Triune God. Judith Kloetzel Moderator, Presbyterian Women in the Baltimore Presbytery Presbytery Council member Baltimore Presbytery An open letter to Jack Haberer February 19, 2004 I read your guest editorial in The Presbyterian Outlook. You are way off base and do not understand reality. Let's take a look at sending "money" to the PCUSA:
So, as I understand it, you want us to send money to the PCUSA to pay for our own destruction? To pay for the ministries of the PCUSA that we oppose and are contrary to Holy Scripture? It will be a dark day when I send money to the PCUSA to promote [this issue, which] is the main reason people are leaving and not sending funds to the PCUSA. Wm. M. Reeves Birmingham, Ala. No one is silencing the noisemakers February 18, 2004 Are gays really a "silenced" group? To the contrary, GLBTs are generally the noisiest, soap-boxiest group not only in the PCUSA, but in Hollywood and the rest of America's quasi-depraved hip culture. Silenced? Unfortunately no, but we can all keep praying. Noel K. Anderson, executive pastor First Presbyterian Church Bakersfield, Calif. Some cynical comments about PCUSA February 18, 2004 What on earth is wrong with this denomination? Allow me to wax cynical. Now I read we've got a "Friends of Che" club member running for moderator. Our current moderator is crossing the country weeping crocodile tears for the "silenced voices" of gays, lesbians, transgendered and bisexual. We also have as candidate, the pastor of a Confessing Church Movement member congregation (yeah, good luck), and another guy who celebrates the differences of opinion in his home congregation. Be still my heart. Maybe he'll split the vote with Mr. Bifurcated Surname and the Confessing Church Movement guy will become moderator. Oh, I forgot, if the numbers don't come out the way they should, it gets handled. Right, Cliff? Have we lost so many members from our denomination that we can't identify one single minority, disabled, migrant worker, union steward, Palestinian, married and ordained homosexual, communist, Princeton Theological grad, who leads a liturgical dance troupe to run for moderator? Where is our diversity? End of cynicism. God save us. Jack O'Brien Pittsburgh, Pa. Haberer longs for a way things never were February 18, 2004 Please help us to understand why we should support dissipating Christology, disregard for Biblical authority, irreverence for life's value from womb to tomb, sexual confusion born of cultural accommodation over Biblical revelation, America-bashing as some kind of spiritual mantra, syncretism by acronyms NCC and WCC, and so on. Jack [Haberer's] comments are a longing for the way things never were, or maybe were but are no more. Robert R. Kopp Loves Park, Ill. Justice? February 18, 2004 I note that the notion of justice has been a lead banner for the liberal since the 1960s. I do wish that they would define what they mean because it appears their practices and statements are different from the conservative's notions. The liberal, it appears, desires equality – meaning to take from those who have and redistribute that which is taken to those who don't have. Thus, they seem to want a leveling effect. Conversely, conservative justice is equity - that is, to minister to each according to their needs. In Christ's Church, that involves cheerful giving of time, talents and money to the orphans, widows and those in need. The notion of equity appears to be a sterling example of agape (Biblical). Equality, on the other hand, appears to be earthly eros (non-Biblical). Karl M. Everett There is still room for missions February 16, 2004 I am a minister in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and a teacher at an interdenominational Bible college in Malawi and, therefore, not part of your PCUSA missionary system. Yet I'd like to second the opinion expressed by Andy Carrick, missionary to Japan. I hope that the congregations associated with your renewal movement will seriously consider giving more funds withheld from the liberal-controlled home office to world missions. Let me quickly summarize what missionaries have accomplished. In 1900, 81 percent of Christianity was made up of white Westerners; in 1999, it was only 39 percent. It had been transformed from a primarily Western institution to a primarily "Developing World" one. How? Missionaries went out, proclaimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the message was received and hundreds of millions were converted. Along the way, missionaries have been active in the abolition of slavery, Chinese foot binding, female circumcision in Africa and suttee (the practice of burning widows alive) in India. They did invaluable translation work. Even today, they provide much of the Developing World's medical and educational personnel. Many missionaries died on the field performing their duties. I am very proud to be part of this tradition. Yet, what I pick up from many U.S. churches is "What missions?" Therefore, in addition to opposing the forces of heresy, I hope that the congregations of your movement will intensify their knowledge of and commitment to world missions. One last thing. There is no substitute for the career missionary – the man or woman who has dedicated his or her life to learning a language and culture in order to transmit the Gospel to that culture. Currently, "mission trips" are very popular. Doctors and dentists can go on a "mission trip" and make a contribution; most "mission trips" I have seen can best be described as sanctified tourism. Oops! I just kicked a sacred cow. I'd better close, but thank you very much. Rev. Dr. Larry Brown African Bible College Layman is no place to have a dialogue February 16, 2004 Submitted as an open letter in response to 'Inclusive' moderator excludes and doesn't bless non-GLBTs I was glad to meet you and welcome you to Pasadena Presbyterian Church last Sunday as we sat together for the morning worship. I was glad that you accepted our invitation to attend the last class of a six-week series in our Adult Education. Yes, our theme those six weeks had been the clause from our Brief Statement of Faith, "Voices Long Silenced." We had heard the Voices of (1) The Native American, (2) California's Hungry and Homeless, (3) the Iraqi Christians, (4) Christian minorities in Palestine/Israel, (5) the Families of the Armenian Genocide. For our 6th and last session, we asked the Moderator to speak of Voices in the PCUSA Long Silenced. You will remember that she spoke of the voices from small churches, voices of Christian educators seeking recognition, and other voices including those of gays and lesbians. Susan Andrews is the Moderator of the whole church and of all its members. It is amazing how we tune in and tune out on what we hear and remember. Just yesterday, I read parts of her report to the General Assembly Council, which was meeting in Louisville. Her report was entitled, "Mission is the Glue." Moderator Susan Andrew said of her recent travels, "I fielded tough questions from our more conservative brothers and sisters, and heard anger, sorrow and frustration of gays and lesbians as they continue to feel excluded from our church." I heard her say Sunday in the class how she is committed to the unity of the church. Many in the GLBT community are angry with the moderator for not being more forthright in advocating the ordination of gays and lesbians, for not working more effectively to remove G.6.106b, for saying "now is not the time." Some ask, "if not now, when?" From your letter, I would understand your answer to be never, period, end of discussion! Greg, your voice would not have been silenced in our Adult Education class. If you had made the slightest indication of a desire to ask a question, I would have called on you. You would have been heard much better there and sparked a dialogue than by our reading your letter in The Layman. The Layman is not an arena for dialogue and, in my reading of it, has never been such a place. Rather than open dialogue, you appear to close the door and by so doing are saying no to an inclusive church that welcomes our GLBT brothers and sisters in God's all embracing arms. As a gay man myself, a cradle Presbyterian who has served the Presbyterian Church for over 50 years, I believe in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God for all of God's creation. I find your letter offensive and an obvious publicity ploy when appearing in The Layman. I am truly sorry you chose to remain silent. On your next visit to Fuller Seminary, I hope you will cross the street again and worship at Pasadena Presbyterian Church where the gospel is preached Sunday after Sunday in a multicultural, inclusive church. Yes, I thanked the moderator by saying "I hope your voice is never silenced." That is my prayer for all who speak out for Justice and Inclusion in our beloved Presbyterian Church. Rev. Dr. Robert C. Lodwick Pasadena, Calif. Now's time for Presbyterians to return to PCUSA February 16, 2004 This letter is written for those who have left the Presbyterian Church (USA), as I did many years ago, because you felt that the national leaders never heard your heart or your words and were taking the church where you did not believe God would have his church walk. I attended the Western North Carolina Presbytery meeting in Asheville, N.C., and saw what a mockery the leadership had made of the laws and bylaws of the church and how far they will go to silence anyone who opposes their thinking. (Not so very different from when I left, but much more aggressive and openly hostile to the membership.) It grieved my heart to hear the action taken against Pastor Williamson and his calling. It proved me right in what I had believed so long ago and felt the only course I had to exercise was to leave the church of my fathers and this was a very hard decision for me, an elder at the time, to make. I did not see how one little person could make any difference. Today I know that 1,700 or so have left and still the leadership cannot see that it is walking the church into apostasy. Well, today, I would urge any and all Christians who have left the PCUSA to return and swell the ranks of membership, which will in turn increase the votes at presbytery and begin to make a difference in the voices that will be heard. You can make a difference and I am here to say that the church of God is made up of those Bible-believing peoples who follow his word and recognize sin for what it is and ask forgiveness of God for their continual failures to follow his teachings and having supplanted it with the words of men. Together we all can make a difference and you can direct your money as well as your mind to those works which you know are godly. It seems that suggesting that people prayerfully direct their gifts is the real sin that the national church cannot stand and that is really what has brought about the action they have taken against The Layman. This was very foolish, for if it is of God, they can not stop it and if it is not of God, it will fail. I would like to remind those who feel they know better how to direct funds than the people whose labors have provided those funds, that "The love of money is the root of all evil." Not my words but the words of God, so, if you have a problem with them, take it up with the author. Patricia Madison |
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