May 2004 letters, page 2 Archives of letters to the editor

All who sin are under the curse of the law of death May 26, 2004 In his May 25 letter, Earl Apel asked, "Where does God curse in the first place?" The first place where God cursed was Eden (Gen. 3.14-19). After our first parents rebelled against the Lord's command and partook of the forbidden fruit, he cursed the serpent who brought the temptation by making him go on his belly and eat dust all the days of his life. The Lord cursed the woman, who let herself be duped by the serpent into thinking that the fruit would make her wise, partaking of the fruit and giving some to her husband, by increasing her pain in child bearing and rearing and also by promising trouble in her relationship with her husband. The Lord cursed the man, who was with the woman while the serpent was beguiling her with the fruit and who, rather than refute the serpent's lies and rebuke his wife for listening to them, became a willing participant in her sin. The Lord cursed him by forcing him to toil in labors that often result in thorns and thistles in order to eke out the fruit by which he needed to live. For the man's sake, the Lord cursed the creation (see also Gen. 5.29) – indeed, "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom. 8.20-21) And the Lord cursed our whole race to death. The first death is that by which we have fallen into sin, which was immediate and passed from Adam and Eve unto every man, woman, and child who ever lived (save for Christ alone). The first death is the breaking of the fellowship with God which our first parents enjoyed before the Fall. Because of our sin, we are cursed by, and estranged from God. Furthermore, since the wages of sin is death (Rom. 6.23), the second death is that which ends our sorry, miserable existence in this world. God is "of purer eyes than to behold evil and cannot look on wickedness." (Hab. 1.13) He is holy, and his holiness cannot permit sin to go unpunished. For this reason, all who sin are under the curse of the law of death, and we all, every last man, woman, and child, who has ever walked this earth (again, save Christ alone) have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. But the Lord's curses were not restricted to Eden. In the time of Noah, he cursed the whole world, and every man, woman, and child that was not aboard the ark perished in a cataclysmic flood for the wickedness that abounded upon the face of the earth (Gen. 6.11-17, 7.21). To Abraham, the Lord promised, "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you." (Gen. 12.3) In the time of Moses, the Lord cursed the land of Egypt with ten plagues, even causing the death of the firstborn of all the Egyptians, even the firstborn of Pharaoh (Ex. 7.14-11.10, 12.29-30). And in the Wilderness, the Lord cursed the rebellious Israelites whom he had brought out of the land of Egypt, by causing them to wander forty years before coming to the Promised Land, wherein every man and woman over the age of twenty of the generation Moses led out of bondage perished before coming to the Promised Land, faithful Joshua and Caleb excepted (Num.14.26-35). When Jephthah swore his rash oath, the Lord cursed him by causing him to sacrifice his own daughter (Judg. 11.30-39). When Saul presumed to offer a sacrifice to the Lord, which was not his to offer, the Lord cursed him by promising that his line would not continue, but his kingdom would be given to another. When David committed adultery with Bathsheba and caused her husband to be murdered, the Lord cursed him by causing the death of the child of that adultery, by causing strife and murder among his children, by raising up adversity against him from his own son, by giving his wives to his enemy to lay with them before the sight of all Israel, and by cursing him with warfare during all his life (II Sam. 12.10-14). When Solomon's heart turned from the Lord and he fell into idolatry, the Lord cursed him by promising to tear the kingdom of Israel from the hand of his son and heir (I Kings 11.1-13). When Ahab murdered Naboth for his vineyard, the Lord cursed him by promising that whoever belonged to him and died in the city would be consumed by dogs, and whoever died in the country would be consumed by birds (I Kings 21.17-29). When Uzziah grew proud and offered incense to the Lord in the Temple, in the manner of the pagan priest kings in the nations around him, the Lord cursed him with leprosy (II Chron. 26.16-21). When Hananiah falsely prophesied that the Lord would reduce the seventy-year Babylonian Captivity to seven years, the Lord cursed him by causing him to die two months later (Jer. 28.15-17). When Nadab and Abihu offered profane fire (Lev. 10.1-3), when Uzzah put his hand to the ark, which was not to be touched (II Sam. 6.6-7), and when Ananias and Sapphira lied about the amount of the sale of a piece of property they had sold and from which they had withheld a portion from the proceeds that were to have gone to the church (Acts 5.1-11), the Lord cursed them by killing them in retribution. "By those who come near me I must be regarded as holy; and before all the people I must be glorified." (Lev. 10.3) When Moses faced the trial of the people's rebellion at the incident of the golden calf, when his leadership and his life were at stake, he called to the Lord, asking that he show him his glory. The Lord responded by passing before him, showing to him as much of his glory as he could withstand. As the Lord passed by, he proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children to the third and fourth generation." (Ex. 34.6-7) And when the Israelites complained that they were being unfairly punished for the sins of their forebears, the Lord through the Prophet Ezekiel pointed out that they, too, had committed the same sorts of sins and were justly being punished for them (Ezek. 18). When sin is not restrained, it festers and causes societal decay. Its fruit is bitter, and is a fitting punishment to those who commit it. Thus unchecked, the sins of a generation are magnified in the next. And thus it festers until the Lord deems the time to be fulfilled when he must step in and act in judgment. Such was the case in Sodom and Gomorrah in the days of Abraham, Egypt in the time of Moses, in Canaan in the time of Joshua, and in Israel in the time of the Babylonian Captivity. Such will be the case with this world at the end of time, when Christ returns to judge the living and the dead. In Egypt, the Lord commanded Pharaoh to let his people go, and he sent several plagues to persuade him to relent when he refused. But after the first four plagues we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart. But at the end of the sixth, eighth, and ninth plagues, we read that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart – the time for repentance was at an end and the time of judgment had arrived. In Rom. 1.18-32, we read that although through natural revelation, the character and purposes of God are clearly revealed, man neither glorifies him nor gives thanks to him. Man exchanges the truth of God for a lie and worships and serves the creature rather than the Creator. Man is impressed with his own ingenuity, his prowess in debunking, demythologizing, deconstructing, and vetting all claims to absolute truth that appeal to a metaphysical reality undetectable to the five senses, yet which is deeply rooted in the human soul. In so doing, man fails to recognize that he has created a hollow world for himself that shuts out the light that emanates from God alone. Blind and insensate, he tries to persuade himself and others that he has found more light than those who dogmatically claim to present the absolute truth of God. All the while he claims to be rich when his spiritual condition is utterly destitute (Rev. 3.17). The Lord thus gives man up to the foolishness of his heart – this is the Lord's curse – he does not restrain him from indulging in base pleasures, nor does he restrain his enemies from visiting him with violence, that he might reap in his flesh the bitter fruit of the seed of sin he has cultivated in his own life. "I am the Lord and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things." (Is. 45.6b-7) The Lord God Almighty is a strong ally to those who worship, serve, and obey him. But he is an indomitable foe against those who do not. One more thing needs to be said about the curse of God. "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree'), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith." (Gal. 3.13-14; see also Dt. 21.22-23) As members of Adam's fallen, sinful race, we are all, without exception, under God's curse of death in just retribution for our sins. God utterly detests sin, and we far too often fail to grasp that simple truth. Two thousand years ago, he sent his only Son to live among us, leading a perfect, sinless life in active and passive obedience to the Father, fulfilling all the Law and the Prophets. Certainly, he came to explain how God wants us to love one another, but more importantly, he came to show us the character of the Father, and to teach us what God is like and what it means to love him with every fiber of our being. God's curse is reserved for those who transgress or fail to perfectly keep his commandments. From eternity, God chose certain men and women from our fallen and sinful race whom he would predestine to be conformed to the image of his Son. At Calvary, it was his pleasure to ask his Son to become the curse for these. "He was wounded for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." (Is. 53:5-6) So then, yes God certainly blesses – he showers his gifts of love on all his creatures. But he also curses – he recompenses sin for the grief it causes. And it was his curse upon his Son in the place of sinners like you and me that gives us the certain hope that we shall live with him in receipt of his boundless love, joy and blessings forevermore. Loren Golden Overland Park, Kan. God blesses; Satan curses May 25, 2004 The Rev. Bill Pawson notes in his letter that: "And no amount of further discussion will make any difference nor obligate God to bless what he has cursed." My question is where does God curse in the first place? That seems to me an oxymoron. Isn't it more appropriate to say what Satan curses? Unless he suggests that God and Satan are one in the same. Otherwise, I don't get it. It seems to me that God always blesses, yet Satan curses. Let's give credit where credit is due. Earl C. Apel, deacon Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church Cincinnati, Ohio It all depends on interpretation May 25, 2004 In response to enough is enough, and the Old Gray Dog: God's Word is still true. It all depends on how his Word is interpreted. No doubt, Rev. Pawson and Mr. Tuckett still believe that women should not be elders and ministers. After all, the Bible is clear on that point, and it never changes. No doubt they still believe in slavery, and surely believe in the residual effects of slavery: segregation, etc. The Scripture is very clear on slavery. No doubt, they still believe in the punishments called for those who don't abide by the Ten Commandments. How long has it been since anyone was buried up to their neck and stoned to death. The Bible is clear about this. Dick Blanton Owensboro, Ky. Why is Kirkpatrick a leader in the PCUSA? May 25, 2004 What is it with guy, anyway? And why is he a leader in the PCUSA? He's an embarrassment to the entire denomination. It's people like him that make it hard for our churches to grow. Dr. Mike Porter, pastor Norton Presbyterian Church Yes, Andrews supports local option on ordaining women May 25, 2004 To Roy Zuber: You won't find it because it isn't there. The phrase "separation of church and state" isn't in the U. S. Constitution anywhere, nor is it in any of the amendments. It derives from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson – who, you will recall, was in Paris during the period of the drafting of the constitution and thus had no hand whatsoever in its writing – and was only imported into constitutional jurisprudence later by the Supreme Court. For a good overview of this subject, check out recent issues of First Things (available online – go to www.firstthings.com and use the "Browse" function). To the Old Gray Dog: yes, Moderator Susan Andrews does support local option on the ordination of women (to any office). I know this because she told me so in conversation during her visit to Denver Presbytery this February. She stated flatly that the denomination had made a mistake when it mandated the ordination of women. Later, in her evening address, she mentioned that there are 300 PCUSA churches in defiance of the Book of Order on this issue, and then stated her approval of the presbyteries and synods which are refusing to discipline them. Her stated reason was that most of these are racial/ethnic churches whose cultures don't allow for the ordination of women. The problem with her position is that while decisions to ordain or not ordain have always been a matter of local option, as she notes, the standards governing those decisions have never been, but have always been mandated at the denominational level. Thus, as I pointed out to Moderator Andrews during our conversation, to change that, were the change taken seriously and enforced seriously, would ultimately turn us into congregationalists (she didn't see my point, however). If it wasn't, of course, it would simply collapse back to a denominationally-mandated standard, and the "option" would become a requirement. Any position between those two poles is untenable, and anyone who doesn't believe it should just look a while at my home denomination, the RCA, whose attempt at a "local option" solution to the ordination of women is currently in the process of collapsing. Rev. Rob Harrison Grand Lake, Colo. Review is the kind of 'substantive discussion that we are looking for' May 24, 2004 I want to thank Gerrit Dawson for his thorough review of "God's Love Overflowing." It is precisely this kind of substantive discussion that we are looking for. In the polarized environment in which we often work, it is rare to receive criticism that rises above slogans and invectives. While I will withhold judgment on the merits of the whole of Gerrit's analysis, I do want to clarify two points: 1) The 216th General Assembly meeting this June is not being asked to approve the paper as written. Instead the General Assembly is being asked to "Authorize the Office of Theology and Worship, with participation of the Trinity Working Group, to invite response and comment to the current draft of the theological statement on the Doctrine of the Trinity, and to conduct a series of consultations throughout the church to encourage fresh engagement with the fullness of the Doctrine of the Trinity." This series of consultations will lead to: "a final draft of the theological statement on the Doctrine of the Trinity" to be submitted to the 217th General Assembly (2006) for action. Gerrit's feedback will be part of that process. We welcome substantive comments from all quarters of the church. 2) Gerrit criticizes the use of the Confession of 1967 in the paper. Contrary to his suspicion, I am confident that the change from "this" to "the" is a typo and does not indicate embarrassment over the context of the quotation. Gerrit is correct in pointing out several problems of notation in the paper. We will fix those errors as soon as possible. Charles Wiley Office of Theology and Worship No amount of discussion will obligate God to bless what he has cursed May 24, 2004 I couldn't believe my eyes. Regarding the normalization of homosexual practice, Moderator Susan Andrews says, "But only after Presbyterians research and discuss the issues civilly and thoroughly, letting every voice be heard, will they be ready to make informed decisions." Frankly the elitist attitude of Moderator Andrews expressed in her statement is an insult to every Presbyterian. She leaves me wondering what planet she has been on for the last 30 years! It certainly could not have been Earth, because we've just spent the last 30 years discussing the issues civilly (and at times uncivilly) and thoroughly (I can't imagine any area of this issue that has been overlooked). So what can Moderator Andrews possibly mean? Wait a minute. I got it. It all depends on what "informed decisions" means. I just checked my Dictionary of Liberal Doublespeak and discovered the definition is "the point at which everyone abandons their own convictions and agrees with the liberals." And since we are not yet there, Susan Andrews believes we need to pretend the last 30 years never happened and that losing one member every 13 minutes actually strengthens the church. And if it is true, as Moderator Andrews is quoted as saying, that the PUP Task Force is going to recommend "that every Presbyterian, every congregation, every presbytery, every session engage in the same kind of honest, intensive dialogue with people with whom we disagree on these issues to gain understanding and to build relationship," all I can say is "We've been robbed!" We've had plenty of honest, intensive dialogue ... on these issues. There is no point at all in further discussing blessing a perverse and adulterous death-style that God has already called sin. I, for one, have had enough "honest dialogue" – intensive or otherwise – to last me several lifetimes. Believe it or not, I understand the position of those with whom I disagree (and I suspect that most other Presbyterians do, too). And as a Bible-believing orthodox Christian I must affirm that those supporting and advancing the homosexual agenda are still as wrong as they were at the beginning of the discussion because God's word is still true. And no amount of further discussion will make any difference nor obligate God to bless what he has cursed. O that God's faithful people would finally rise up and say, "Enough is enough!" Rev. Bill Pawson Westminster Community Church Canton, Ohio A Confessing Church 'Leaders' do not deliberately abuse their office to further their own agendas May 24, 2004 How does the stated clerk of our denomination participate in a legal battle? Is he "theoretically" representing himself or our denomination? Frankly, it would be hard to separate the man and his activities, since one seems to move into the other with great ease. And certainly the ideas which are espoused in such a case seem to be totally contrary to what we should be expecting from our leadership. At least the majority of us. The lines of distinction between what individual leaders in our denomination do on their own volition and what they do as officials of this denomination have become so blurred that no one can tell where the "denomination" starts and stops. To say the least, there have been too many instances of leaders using the authority of their office to make position statements which are not shared by the majority of the members of this denomination. The public cannot distinguish that which is from the individual and that which is from the denomination. It would seem logical, a false assumption, that when one cannot readily remove the appearance of speaking for the denomination, that one should keep silent. But that's too simple. Christians certainly have the "right" to be on different sides of issues, but leaders, if they really are, would not deliberately abuse their office to further their own agendas. At what point do we say, "enough is enough!" and make some serious changes. It seems to me that the PCUSA has a pope ... and we didn't even realize it! James Chambers, elder Richmond, Va. Andrews is example of a 'leader' who has poor Christology May 24, 2004 Susan Andrews' comments come as no surprise. She is merely another example in a long line of "leaders" who have a poor Christology. A "poor Christology" is no Christology at all. This coming General Assembly meeting should be a gathering on Mt. Carmel. It is time to distinguish between priesthoods, and whom we serve. Zadok serves the LORD. Eli serves the culture. Joshua, who was present in Moses' encounter with God, concluded, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Andrews et.al. are "serving the church." Here is a distinction of eternal implication. Jerry J. Voss Millbrook Church Fresno, Calif. Does 'local option' apply for ordaining women elders? May 24, 2004 Would Susan Andrews also approve of "local option" for those opposed to the ordination of women as elders? James Tuckett The Old Gray Dog It's a shame Kirkpatrick opposes the display of the Word of God May 24, 2004 What a shame it is that we, as a denomination, allow someone like Clifton Kirkpatrick, to hold a position of such high authority in our denomination. Anyone who would oppose the public display of our Ten Commandments (The Word of God) should be removed from office. He is an absolute disgrace to any claim we have as a God loving, God fearing denomination and I just pray that the upcoming election will see him ousted from office. Jim Lewis Waynesville First Presbyterian Church Waynesville, N.C. Show me the words in the constitution May 24, 2004 Would someone show me where the constitution states there should be a separation of state and church? Roy Zuber, elder Who knows we are boycotting Taco Bell? May 24, 2004 In response to the letter "Taco Bell boycott emerged from the pews:" Yes, this boycott did originate with a presbytery and was voted on by the General Assembly. But, do you think for one minute it would have gotten anywhere without Mr. Kirkpatrick's approval? Here's something fun to do, at your next Bible study/fellowship dinner/church gathering, take a straw poll to see how many of those people in the pews even know we are boycotting Taco Bell. I did this a couple of years ago at our family retreat at Montreat. Guess what? Not even half of the people there had a clue. Marc Karasek Norcross, Ga. Layman supporters will never go away May 24, 2004 After having been born and raised in the Presbyterian Church (USA), I stopped attending services, and, later, gave up my membership completely on account of the very issues The Layman brought to the attention of the laity. My little sister is a graduate of Princeton Theological Seminary, and in many ways, her life and witness have affected my decision to leave the church. (For example, she lived with her boyfriend while attending seminary.) I do not want to judge – judging people is very distant from my priorities – but my sister's comments about how The Layman was causing a rift in the church set the two of us at odds. (I still love her very dearly, and spend much time each holiday season picking out the items I think her three children will like the most.) I just wanted to remind the editors of The Layman that their supporters will never go away. Rick Ritter Christians should not support the war on drugs May 24, 2004 I have one very sincere question regarding you personally. Would you personally advocate and support violence against peaceful human beings? Or, would you vigorously oppose it and, thus, fulfill the call of Jesus to his people that they should be peacemakers? Would you advocate attacking human beings because of the leaves and flowers they chose to consume? Right now, America is encompassed with the evil policy of attacking just such peaceful people in the so-called "War on Drugs." While the goal of harm reduction is admirable and the frequently severe negative effects of the misuse of chemicals is well known, the use of violence as a method of responding these negative effects results in a harm that is most despicable and destructive for not only those who misuse these chemicals but also for the many very responsible and, often, professional peaceful human beings who also find benefit and choose to use the plants of our creation. Even the briefest of research regarding this essential destructive effect of this current policy will show the grotesque harm this policy has done to individuals and, tragically, often children. As a Christian, I believe you would sound the alarm that this evil must stop. Greg Logan Elect people with allegiance to who we are May 21, 2004 How can we have a moderator who wants to destroy the connectional nature of our denomination? We can pray that the commissioners to the next General Assembly will understand the gravity of this and elect a moderator and stated clerk who have some semblance of allegiance to who we are! Otherwise it may well be all over and membership losses will dwarf those of the past. Fred Edwards Washington Crossing, Pa. You can't have it both ways May 21, 2004 Susan R. Andrews wants it both ways in reference to gays; on the one hand those churches/presbyteries that uphold the Book of Order standard that forbids ordaining gays can legally practice the same, while those churches/presbyteries following their own standards can ordain. Hello? The Book of Order does not give anyone the right to ordain gays, and to suggest otherwise is treason. Does Andrews remember Eve in the garden being told by Lucifer, "Is that what God said?" We know the rest of the story of Genesis 3, and to do the same for Andrew's suggestion is, again, treason. Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del. Doesn't presbytery have to appeal case? May 21, 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the only way the GAPJC could hear the case be if the Presbytery of Cincinatti appealed the ruling of the Synod of the Covenant? Rev. Richard Hinkle Terrace View Presbyterian Church Mountlake Terrace, Wash. The Presbytery of Cincinnati did appeal the case, but the General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission dismissed the appeal. The Office of the General Assembly has subsequently issued its interpretation of how church law is affected by the Synod of the Covenant ruling. The Editors Bagnuolo's certification a whispered event May 20, 2004 As it turns out, your report of the May 15 meeting of Hudson River Presbytery is not quite correct. Your statement "The presbytery approved his certification during its meeting" is inaccurate. The presbytery was informed at the May 15 meeting that the Committee on Preparation for Ministry had approved his certification at some earlier date. The report of the COPM was given by a substitute for the two chairs. The gentleman speaking said that he had a brief report, that one person had been enrolled as inquirer, and that Ray Bagnuolo had been released to seek a call. The presenter spoke the second name so softly that many were not able to hear the name at all, and he left the podium immediately, without even allowing the opportunity for questions on the report. No written report from COPM was provided in either mailed or picked-up packets; no written material with Mr. Bagnuolo's name was provided at all. In a second action, as part of the "routine" actions of the personnel committee, Ray Bagnuolo was hired by the presbytery to the jobs of communicator and webmaster for the presbytery web site, at a salary of $6,000 per year. Again there was no written warning of the action. The personnel chair presented the motion to hire Mr. Bagnuolo to replace Peter Avery who was leaving; the moderator led a round of applause to appreciate Peter's work as Webmaster and then immediately called for a vote on the motion. When the motion passed, the moderator smiled to Mr. Bagnuolo in the audience and said, "Welcome back, Ray." Neither action allowed for questions or comments from the floor, and both happened so quickly that anyone not familiar with the name would have missed their implications. There was no indication to the presbytery that the actions might be in any way controversial. Many (if not most) in the meeting were completely unaware of their significance. Rev. Jean Risley Scotchtown Presbyterian Church Middletown, New York Birthday offering and feminist training May 20, 2004 Thank Sylvia Dooling of Voices of Orthodox Women (VOW) for her insightful investigation related to ITEBA located in Brazil which seeks significant financial support from the PCUSA, specifically from its network of congregations including: First Presbyterian Church of Washington, Pa. First Presbyterian Church of St. Cloud, Minn. First Presbyterian Church of Youngstown, N.Y. Hanover Presbyterian Church of Hanover, Ind. Heritage Presbyterian Church of Phoenix, Ariz. Mt. Auburn Presbyterian Church of Cincinnati, Ohio Trinity Presbyterian Church of Topeka, Kan. Unitarian Fellowship of Santa Cruz, Calif. Westminister (sic) Presbyterian Church of Minneapolis, Minn. Westminister (sic) Presbyterian Church of Munster, Ind. I am given to understand that the 2004 Birthday Offering from congregations of the PCUSA will be apportioned to support ITEBA. Mrs. Dooling relates receipt of the following from Presbyterian missionary worker Lottie Haswell about ITEBA: "On May 12, Lottie sent me her translation (from Portuguese) of the opening paragraph of the [ITEBA] school's Bulletin. Her translation reads: "In January of 1993, a group of women met around the dream of constructing a theology that grew out of their own universe of life experiences; (a theology) that would confront archaic religious structures and would re-imagine God as pluralistic, creative, universal and evolving" (emphasis mine)." "9. Lottie's email continues with commentary: The article goes on to give a history of this group which has met annually during these 10 years, and has ... "graduated over 350 women from the state of Bahia and also indigenous women who have become firm leaders in their own tribe." The course, which goes by the name YAMI (Theological, Ecumenical Center for Feminist Study of ITEBA) has as its coordinator, Marlene Moreira da Silva who is the "diretora geral" or director (president/dean) of the ITEBA and the coordinator of the YAMI course. The Bulletin states with pride that the course has been taught by famous feminist theologians such as Aline Steuer, June Rogers, Maria Luiza Ruckert, Ivone Gebara, Dr. Elisabeth Schussler Fiorenza (Harvard/USA) and Lieve Troch (Methodist University of of São Paulo). Maria de Lourdes Siqueira also has taught at ITEBA. She is a member of the Candomblé religion" – a form of pagan spiritism introduced in Brasil by African slaves. So does a spiritual leader from the Pataxó tribe who is not a professing Christian. These two women are listed as assessors or resource persons for the YAMI course. The director, Marlene, describes the course saying that "northeast women need, just as they seek water to survive the droughts in the northeast, they need to find their own spring or source for theology (emphasis mine)." Of course this contrasts with our orthodox view that the Scripture is the only rule of faith and practice. Nowhere in the document that describes the ITEBA theology course is there any mention of the Bible as even one of the sources for theology. Only the titles of a few courses indicate that there is any Biblical content at all. In the four pages of the Journal the ONLY mention of GOD is the one I translated. In four pages I could find no mention of the Bible, God's word, etc. Though there is a one page "study"of Genesis 38:1-26. The author, Dr. Marli Wandermurem, says, "So we ask ourselves this question: how does this part of the 'word' shed light on our life as women? What does it teach about our rights, as women, to a dignified life? How does it force us to conclude that we should seek our rights, even if we must subvert what is socially and theologically acceptable, or considered to be correct and normal?" But nowhere is the name of Jesus Christ mentioned. And the one reference to the scripture (palavra [i.e. word] ) is written in quotes with a small p – not customery for Brazilian believers. We write: a Palavra ou a Palavra de Deus." Dr. Karl M. Everett Taco Bell boycott emerged from the pews May 20, 2004 Time for another polity reminder. It wasn't "those people in Louisville" who decided to boycott Taco Bell. It was an overture from Tampa Bay Presbytery. Last I checked, it was made up of people – like you, like me. Good, faithful Presbyterians. Then it was voted on by people at the 2002 General Assembly. Again, people – like you, like me. It isn't something Cliff or Susan or someone else decided to do. It was an action of folks in pews and chairs in churches. Rev. Kerri Peterson-Davis Pleasant Hill Presbyterian Church Duluth, Ga. Same-sex marriage in Scandavian countries May 20, 2004 The current issue of Theology Matters has an excellent article on same-sex marriage and the results in Scandinavian countries. The former pastor, gone only a few days now has been relentless in his refusal to name clearly a single essential tenet. Nevertheless, he did not hesitate to eliminate the physical resurrection and the virgin birth as not being essential tenets. This Easter his sermon ended at the "Descent from the Cross" and made points to in effect redefine the traditional meaning of resurrection. I'm currently reviewing Leith's Basic Christian Doctrine. Richard H. Sharrett, elder Fanwood Presbyterian Church Elizabeth Presbytery Presbyterians can take action – elect new leaders May 18, 2004 Please note, the May 17, 2004, article "'Practicing, non-repentant homosexual' certified as candidate for PCUSA ministry" is not the first. I'm not sure Milwaukee's action doing the same thing in September 2003 was the first either, but in a letter to the editor dated Oct. 3, 2003, a writer noted: "If Ms. Marlow still proclaims her sexual preference as lesbian at the time of her ordination vote, the motion will not, I predict, receive unanimous approval. But, I also 'understand' that if she states she is celibate at that time, we who would won't have a chance to discuss the advisability of disapproval. And, once again, the BOO will trump the Bible." This is precisely the situation the Episcopal church found itself in 14 years ago with Gene Robinson. Perhaps standing for the truth now will avoid the situation in which the Episcopal congregants have now found themselves – some 14 (or 15 years later). Will we? Doubt it. Will God deal with it? No doubt at all. Someday soon, we may hear, "incoming," and receive deserved peripheral damage from our great God and Savior's righteous anger and judgment. There are things we can do. How about doing it this time? Let's start with the stated clerk and moderator elections at the upcoming General Assembly. Greg Leaman Oostburg, Wisc. A win-win for departing congregation May 18, 2004 What an exciting article! There are several interesting situations. The congregation voted unanimously to sever ties and the presbytery voted unanimously to let them go and the separation price dropped $750,000. Sounds like a win-win situation for Warsaw. I wish them well in a fold of believers. Chuck Larsen A win-win for departing congregation May 18, 2004 After Taco Bell, let's boycott Massachusetts Since PCUSA leadership likes boycotts so well, how about starting one of tourists against the entire Commonwealth of Massachusetts? Since THAT one would make sense, they probably wouldn't be interested. I sure wouldn't leave any of my money there. Donald M. Snider, elder Fair Oaks, Calif. PCUSA: Woes or blessings? May 18, 2004 Jer. 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD. Jer. 23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. Jer. 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. Jer. 23:4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD. The mainline denominations are scattering (loosing) the "sheep of my pasture!" The evidence is beyond doubt. numbers do not lie, There is no "gather the remnant of my flock" evidence by growth in these churches. The "gathering," "they shall be fruitful and increase" is taking place elsewhere!! "Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture!" Do we want to be counted among these? Is this the path so desirable to the PCUSA, evidenced by the scattering that it is experiencing. We are told "all Scripture is valuable." Then, we should listen to the warning. God will see to it that his sheep will be gathered and be fruitful and increase. Do we want to be a part of the solution or a recipient of the woe? Nowhere in Scripture do I find a gray area. There is right-wrong, sin-sinless, forgiven-unforgiven, confessed-unconfessed, repentant-unrepentant, faithful-unfaithful, saved-unsaved, believer-unbelief, light-darkness, eternal life with God-eternal life in Hell, spiritual-unspiritual, the mind of Christ-the mind of man, blessed-unblessed. The inner battle that is going on within the PCUSA and other denominations has the "church" struggling to save its historical beliefs from those intent to change it. There is no gray area. Would you not rather be focusing on "gathering the sheep" and laboring to be "fruitful and increase" in the name of our Lord Jesus? As God gave the people of Israel into defeat, destruction, captivity and humiliation, I believe he is doing the same with and will continue to do the same with PCUSA. Defending the "church" rather than the gospel is not a desirable position to be in. God raised up a "new" and refined Israel. The "old" had died. It took 70 years. I believe that "gathering, being fruitful and increasing" through the unfettered spread of the Gospel is our assignment. Where we, how we, if we, undertake the task, the task is more important than vehicle. History has shown, faith, fellowship, worship, service exist where the Spirit of God is free to work in truth and light without the distraction of conflict within the vehicle. Satan is good at causing us to focus away from our calling and onto those things temporal. Robert A. Browne, elder Clayton Presbyterian Clayton, Ga. 1978 report was wrongheaded May 17, 2004 Wow! Thank you for printing some of the 1978 report that expressed the reasoning behind the discrimination of GBLTs. I hope that some of the people responsible for that report reread the excerpts in your publication. I would not be surprised if they cringed, like I did at the ignorance they espoused. Don't get me wrong. Back then, my views on homosexuality were totally wrongheaded as well. I'm just very encouraged that in general the Presbytery Church (USA) has really grown and matured in their attitude on human sexuality. Don McAdam Atlanta, Ga. PCUSA must enforce the Biblical mandate May 17, 2004 The pro-gay lobby will not be satisfied until the 1978 definitive guidance is rescinded, and that will only be the beginning of the end. It will not stop there, because the pro-gay lobby will seek to make their lifestyle legitimate over heterosexual marriage by rationalizing the new era, which is not new, but reflections of Sodom and Gomorrah. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and will destroy any nation which adopts the gay lifestyle as normal. It may not happen right away, but with the zeal of the pro-gay activists, they will seek total legitimacy. The legal implications will be mind-boggling, because research already indicates infidelity dwarfs anything over heterosexual marriage. Romans 1:18 to Roman 3:20 says it all, and again, is the Bible the Word of God? If so, the PCUSA must enforce the Biblical mandate and the Book of Order, otherwise, the PCUSA loses its existence as a church and Bishop Timothy Nasir's view on the PCUSA will ring true. The faithful within the Body of Christ should rise up and put an end to this senseless debate, since Holy Scripture already teaches homosexuality is an abomination, not only to the Triune God, but to those of us in the Body of Christ. Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del. Faithless shepherds are scattering the flock May 17, 2004 I was moved and saddened by the letter from Donald Tremblay of St. James Episcopal Church (February Layman), in which he laments, "The sheep have been scattered. I and many more Episcopal churchgoers don't know what to do …" This a cry straight out of verse 6 of God's searing indictment of faithless shepherds in Ezekiel 34: My sheep wandered all over the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them (NIV). Concerning the apostasy in the Episcopal Church (USA) and the looming "comparable catastrophe" in the PCUSA, some people seem to believe that these are merely judicial problems and issues of who is in charge, as in "If he just hadn't been consecrated as a bishop" … or "if we just had a different stated clerk, things would be better." Or, "if we could just get rid of the liberals in Louisville" or "if they would follow the Book of Order, things would be OK …" No! These are only symptoms of an underlying, deeply rooted spiritual problem of unbelievers who have crept in, speaking craftily in religious language - faithless shepherds who steadfastly refuse to acknowledge and obey the Word of God, who continually mock at sin and snear at those who wish to walk in obedience to Scripture and uphold Biblical standards." Paul wrote in Second Corinthians, Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men (5:11, AV). Ladies and Gentlemen, there is going to be an awful reckoning before the judgment seat of Christ for the faithless, unbelieving shepherds who have flouted his law, scorned his commandments, driven away hHis sheep and scattered his flock. (One more time – how many members has the PCUSA lost since 1967?) [The editors: 1.8 million.] As I have watched events unfold in the Episcopal Church and the PCUSA, I have gained a fresh understanding of why our Lord Jesus Christ will say in that day, "Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!" (Matthew 7:21-23, NIV) Take heart, Mr. Tremblay! The Lord God of Ezekiel 34 promises: I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak. I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. He is able to bring you and all of us into a secure church watched over by faithful shepherds who believe his Word, walk in his precepts and faithfully teach his commandments. He will not fail. Let us take hope in the Lord. Michael E. Humphreys Berryville, Va. Head in the sand or bad information? May 17, 2004 This is one if the dumbest things I have read lately. I don't know if the leadership in Louisville has their head in the sand or just been given some very bad information. I live in Collier County, Fla., not too far from Immokolee and I can attest that there are a lot of poor people there compared to the rest of this county, but, I do not know of any who are "mistreated," and just about all of them are extremely grateful to be there and have jobs. If it wasn't for companies like Taco Bell to buy the produce these people work to bring to market, then there would be no jobs and they would not have the money they have to try and better themselves in this great country. They have housing, cars, clothes, food, medical care, schools, and etc. – things they did not have where they came from. If our church wants to help the people of Immokolee they should send them the money they are going to waste on a national campaign to try to discredit Taco Bell. I have never eaten in a Taco Bell, but I think I shall now. Bill Overstreet A different report from Iraq May 17, 2004 As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two-week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.) Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations. School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war. Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur. The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster. The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August. Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq. The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war. 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war. Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place. Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city. Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets. Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country. Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers. Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever. Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs. An interim constitution has been signed. Girls are allowed to attend school. Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years. Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq who want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So if you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening. Ray Reynolds, SFC Iowa Army National Guard 234th Signal Battalion What's wrong with 'First Nation?' May 17, 2004 The letter from Jesús R. Sánchez Reyes does strike a chord with me, a white man, if one must use categories. I can understand his thoughts about having a name change seeming like overkill – my interpretation. I remember quite well being taught in school about the wonderful melting pot of America where all fall into that recipe and everything turns out just right in the final soup. Nice words but, indeed, not reality. Mr. Reyes asks "So, when 'whites' become the minority will they be called the 'disappearing majority?'" My question to him is what are "whites?" I'm from the same generation as he is, being 47, and I haven't figured that out yet. For it seems to me that it is clear that "whites" are no more alike than Cubans, blacks, or whatever category one likes to use. The categorization in itself is the whole problem with our country in my opinion and I guess that resonates in our denomination as well. For I'm not simply white, I'm also a hillbilly yet also like classical music and growing plants. I like the French language and culture although that is not in my bloodline at all. I like modern art. I find inspiration from traditional sources as well as the outlandish. I enjoy being with all people no matter what grain they may fall into if that has to be defined, and I enjoy time to my self but like to also indulge in social gatherings, and I happen to be "gay." I'm simply "Earl" and just like Mr. Reyes there is no need for apology or explanation although that is being done here somewhat. I think the simple solution is just to refer to everyone as persons just like Christ taught us. Yet the problem in that is one can ignore what certain characteristics define that individual person. I remember quite well a woman telling me that she didn't want me to pretend that I am color blind. Rather she saw the color of her skin as a part of her identity but not her whole identity. This forced me to see her as "Susan" who has many attributes and not simply as a peg fitting into some neat hole that makes us all comfortable. I can't see her as one of those neutral symbols like you see on restroom doors yet I cannot simply see her as a black woman either. There is more to her heart and soul that is quite obvious. I think the real question is whether there really is such a thing as a "majority" in the first place? I personally think it is all a delusion we all like to think is there but isn't. Nevertheless categories are a part of our life and even this denomination. I will certainly welcome the day when the terms liberal, conservative and middle have no relevance. But being more realistic I guess this is the best we humans can do at the time. So maybe the same can be said for the idea of using the term "First Nation." In fact why should that be a problem? The native peoples of America were certainly here first and no one that I know of denies that. So why shouldn't we whose ancestors came after not use the term "Second Nation?" Perhaps a better definition of the so-called disappearing majority? Earl C. Apel, deacon Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church Cincinnati, Ohio Misrepresentation is not condoned May 17, 2004 We of the Presbyterian Church of Big Bear Lake, California take the position that our congregation does not condone the misrepresentation of the Presbyterian Book of Order by Ms. Elenora Giddings. Further to this we do not endorse an employee of the General Assembly who is paid from our annual per-capita funds and for her assumption that she is representing those Presbyterians that truly follow the Book of Order. Elders Ron Keyson and Cooper Gwin Presbyterian Church of Big Bear Lake, Calif. Another name change is ridiculous May 11, 2004 In my life-time (I will be 43 years old in a few days) as an American-born person from Cuban parents, I've gone from being called vulgar racial names to polite ones like Caucasian, Cuban, Cuban-American, Hispanic, Latin, Latin-American, Racial/Ethnic person, person of color (I'm sure I've missed some others), and now emerging majority. Talk about identity crisis! I've always thought of myself as an American. Yet, all who know me know I'm extremely proud of my Cuban roots, because I don't hide it. I realize the importance of the different racial groups and the purpose to have equal representation. I'm all for that. I just think it is ridiculous to have another name change. So, when "whites" become the minority will they be called the "disappearing majority"? Jesús R. Sánchez Reyes Director of Music First Spanish Presbyterian Church of Miami How many majorities are in 100 percent? May 11, 2004 I note the article on "emerging majorities" in wonderment. How many fifty percent plus one (a majority) will fit into each total of 100 percent? It seems our politically correct folks in Louisville have achieved the epitomy of scientific creationism by being able to get multiple 50 percent plus one into 100 percent. May the heavens rejoice! The PCUSA can now square a circle and if given sufficient funds discover the solution for Schrodinger's cat. Given the above, is it possible that meaning and understanding will eventually be made evident about TULIP? Dr. Karl M. Everett Try using the opportunities May 11, 2004 How about ACPIATW (Advocacy Committee to Promote Industry Among Terminal Whiners) instead? As role models, they could use Asians, Jews, and many Hispanics, who would rather use their opportunities than make excuses out of their limitations. Better yet, let's use the personnel on this group as a dynamic model and let them show others how to find jobs in a free-market economy. James Tuckett People don't find truth in politically correct mainstream reformed church May 11, 2004 Read the new Barna report on the decrease in church attendance over the last 10 years. If you are puzzled for understanding look no farther than the PCUSA as typical for an answer. People crave truth and decency. They won't find it in the politically correct mainstream reformed church. All they will find is a lust for power. Don't think we lose members to the "community" church movement. We are loosing them to the mall. Materialism is the new opiate of the masses. And why not? It is preferable to the New Age gook from the mainstream reformed churches. Douglas Anderson A man with moral integrity May 11, 2004 Doug Hepner sounds like a man who has more moral integrity than most of the ministers in that church. Good for him. Finally someone has the kohonas to stand up for what is right. My message to John Bush .... You're out of order! Step down! Dave Mobile Session's action seems contrary to teaching of Scripture May 7, 2004 The action of the Beverly Heights session in severing communion with 10 presbyteries because they sent overtures to General Assembly on homosexuality seems contrary to the teaching of Scripture. Chapter 18 of Ezekiel focuses on individual retribution instead of generational punishment. The story of Sodom and Gomorrah has God removing Lot and his family from the destruction inflicted upon the cities. In each of the 10 presbyteries condemned by the Beverly Heights session are many people whom they would not consider heretics. Yet, the session action withholds fellowship at the Lord's table with them along with those who are working to ordain gays and lesbians. Is that what Beverly Heights really wants to do? As a suggestion, the session of Beverly Heights could follow the Biblical example of Ezekiel and Genesis and focus on individuals. The Web site for the Cloud of Witnesses helpfully provides a list of over 1,000 Presbyterian ministers, elders, deacons and members who have subscribed to a statement in favor of gay ordination and same-sex marriages. The statement also includes the phrase, "our actions will be consistent with our belief." Clearly, these are the very people who the Beverly Heights session believes are heretics. If I am going to be excommunicated by a session, I want it to be because of my beliefs and convictions, not just because I happen to be a member of a particular presbytery. Paul Peterson Minister of Outreach and Education That All May Freely Serve – Michigan Show me the lies May 7, 2004 I am wondering what are the specific un-Christian lies that Dr. Don McGarity accuses people of saying. I have never seen any articles or letters to your publication which question Rev. Kirkpatrick's love for the Lord or his work ethic. I have never seen anything which speaks to his being lazy. There have been many discussions concerning the replacement of the Stated Clerk with someone whose thinking is more in line with the majority of Presbyterians. The ever-increasing margins of defeat of constitutional changes that would allow the ordination of practicing homosexuals show that, at least in this area, our stated clerk needs to rethink his stand. For an excellent article that speaks to the issue see: http://www.pforum.org/informing/davis/beyondprocess.htm Brian Ahier The Dalles, Ore. PCUSA must first honor the sanctity of the life of the unborn May 7, 2004 Quoting More Light Presbyterians: "Our denomination has much work to do in learning to honor the sanctity of life-long relationships based on love and mutuality rather than shaky definitions of gender status and procreative ability." May I say that, until the PCUSA and other denominations honor the sanctity of the life of the unborn, any work regarding the "sanctity" of "life-long relationships" will have no value whatsoever among those claiming to be Christian. John Ramsey Medina, Ohio Synod court's decision is perniciously wrong and evil May 7, 2004 The Rev. Parker T. Williamson calls the Permanent Judicial Commission of the Synod of the Covenant's decision to disregard the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church (USA) "profoundly wrong." He also said: "It undermines truth, and thereby denies the very faith that makes us not only Presbyterian, but Christian as well." I agree with Parker, but I believe his characterization falls short of accurately stating how wrong the decision is. It is not only profoundly wrong, it is perniciously wrong and it is evil. It is the bidding of the devil and cannot be respected nor tolerated. The persons voting for such a judicial statement are not just debaters of a theological issue, they are the personification of evil in our midst. They condemn themselves by their own words, which are as vacant of value as the person they support. They are vagrants in our church. Woe be to any who give them credence to hold any office or follow them. I hold them as utterly and completely unworthy to hold office in our church. Philip Pettus, elder Michillinda Presbyterian Church Pasadena, Calif. 'No comment' May 7, 2004 I have repeatedly requested the leadership of PCUSA to get rid of the new "religion" (homosexuality), but to no avail. I have therefore decided to say, "No comment." Bishop Timotheus Nasir Bishop of the Siloam Biblical Churches of Pakistan Gujranwala, Pakistan The church is a wasteland May 7, 2004 How increduous it all is that in an American era of unparalleled corporation and Wall Street sins, military and governmental sins, parental and sibling sins, ecclesiastical and media sins that we as a church are totally enveloped with gay/lesbian sexual behavior and their ordination. The church is not becoming a wasteland, it sadly is a wasteland. It is time for the prophets to arise and the preachers to proclaim a call for national and personal repentance and for the others simply get out of the way less they invite a greater condemnation. Jerry Little Bainbridge, Ga. PCUSA represents greatest threat to the theological integrity of Mexican church May 5, 2004 I work as a pastor and teacher in the Presbyterian congregations in Tijuana, Baja California. I rejoice at this decision by the Presbyterian Church of East Africa and wish that its Mexican counterpart would do the same! How stupendous it would be if the National Presbyterian Church of Mexico were to sever its relations with the Presbyterian Church (USA)! Your denomination represents the greatest threat to the theological integrity of the Mexican church by incessantly fomenting apostate feminism and liberation theology. I have witnessed how great Mexican preachers have abandoned the sound theology of their youth because of the corruption and confusion wrought by PCUSA "missionaries" to the country on our southern border. May the action of the Presbyterian Church of East Africa serve as an example for other Presbyterian churches in Africa and Latin America. Rev. Bradley Arakelian (Presbyterian Church in America) Del Mar, Calif. Moderator speaks down to Africans in a condescending and insulting way May 5, 2004 Finally we have, in her own words, the moderator of the PCUSA exposing the utter arrogance and disdain of the liberal/progressive minority for those who disagree. Moderator Andrews: "In an interview with Presbyterians Today, the denomination's official monthly magazine, Andrews described the African Christians: "They are kind of in their adolescence/young-adult stage of moving out into their own independence, yet still figuring out how to be in relationship with us as their parent church." How enlightened of Madam Moderator to speak down to our African brothers and sisters in such a condescending and insulting way. The rest of the message (even if unspoken) is quite clear. Only the liberal/progressive camp of white wealthy USA Presbyterians is smart enough, sophisticated enough and enlightened enough to see a hidden message behind the simple truth of Scripture. God save us from such enlightened leadership. I am embarrassed by her, her positions and her unbelievably arrogant pronouncements as moderator. The only ray of Son shine in this mess is that the saints of the PCEA are wise enough to discern the apostasy of our PCUSA leadership and to act faithfully in rejecting it. May God bless them in their journey of faith as we continue to founder in ours. Ms. Andrews, please do not attempt to speak for me or for my congregation. You are an embarrassment. Rev. Jim Yearsley Pittsburgh, Pa. Presbyterians have fought to defend this country from the very beginning May 5, 2004 The Presbyterian Church, of whatever stripe, has never been an objector to a just war. History tells us that even John Knox wore a sword! Presbyterians have fought to defend this country from the very beginning: 18 April 1775. We will not stop defending it because of politically correct piffle emanating from entities allied with communists, socialists or their ilk. It is quite apparent that the "enemy within" intends to destroy the United States, a republic form of government that is constitutionally established. Benjamin Franklin expressed the need for vigilance and, when necessary, struggle to hold on to this new form of government when the constitution was first framed. It is interesting to the nth degree, that these officers and their minions cannot even operate a denomination, also with a constitution, without disrupting its peace and unity by causing strife, heartache and lamentations in the name of their parochial, misbegotten, and troubled idealologies. Now, they think they can run the United States of America in the name of peace that they don't understand and wouldn't recognize if it was displayed with a brass band and fireworks. How egocentric and vapid they are. In other words, they sound like an empty wagon with a few rocks in the bed being pulled over a rutted road – pointless and noisy. Karl M. Everett Draft talk comes up every four years May 5, 2004 This comes up every four years! It's more prominent this year because Rep. Charles Rangel is on every talk show imaginable touting it as a panacea to the supposed lack of personnel in the military. He's turned it into a "race" issue and he is thus to be discounted. This "draft" talk appears regularly every four years. It's not to be taken seriously by anyone (and I don't know a serious political/military thinker who does) and that the Washington Office would give credence to it says a great deal more about the Washington Office and its concern with "certain signs" and the people who think like them. (In another era, they would be called 'fellow travelers.') Parker T. Williamson will be elected Pope about the same year as the draft returns to the USA. Walter Funk Charleston, W.Va. Will PCUSA snap like a string on an instrument? May 5, 2004 The ante keeps being upped by each side of the homosexual issue it seems. A synod court has now so acted. Presbyteries are also involved. It used to be one or two overtures pushing the agenda. This year there is, what, 10 or so overtures attempting the overturn? And how many overtures trying to nail down the traditional position? It used to be "no," period. Then the court said, OK, unions, but not "marriage" (which is a lie, by the way – unions are tantamount to nothing less than marriage). Now they actually marry them and then wordspin to justify. Do you know anything about steel-stringed instruments or have one? As a string is gradually put under greater and greater tension, the string produces a higher and higher pitch. While the string seems resistant to the increasing and unrelenting strain, in fact, the molecules, against their nature, are being pulled farther apart. While it is obvious the string has increased slightly in length, what is not obvious is the point at which the string will snap. At a given, but invisible point, the string snaps with each half of the string recoiling back, one to its anchorage and the other to the force of change. That string is forevermore broken. The only remedy is for a reduction in the force pulling the string apart, not believing that the string may be pulled and stretched to any extent we envision and thinking the string will not break. Is this an analogy for the PCUSA? Rev. Steven L. Seng First Presbyterian Church Wellsburg, W.Va. Minister is ashamed of un-Christian, untrue things said about Kirkpatrick May 5, 2004 I am an evangelical, conservative Presbyterian minister. However, I cannot stand by and continue to read of the unchristian, untrue things that are being said about our present Stated Clerk Cliff Kirkpatrick. I have known Cliff for over three decades. We served together in New Covenant Presbytery, worked on many mission projects, spent many happy summer days at Montreat and did our doctorates together. In 1986, Cliff was responsible for getting our children's doctor and his wife into the mission field in Bangladesh, the poorest country in the world. Cliff is tireless in his work for denomination traveling last year innumerable miles visiting churches and presbyteries as well as presenting our denomination to the larger church. My wife has an expression she uses when I have not been in the best mood. She says: "But I know his heart." I know Cliff Kirkpatrick's heart! He has a heart for our Lord Jesus Christ. He has a heart for the church and he has a heart for our Presbyterian Church. Does Cliff do everything I agreed with? No. But then I do things I do not agree with. Does Cliff make mistakes? Yes. But, then, I have been known on rare occasions to make a mistake or two. Is Cliff evangelistic? Definitely, yes. He loves to preach of the saving love of Jesus Christ. Is Cliff working day and night for the good of the whole Presbyterian Church (USA)? Absolutely. The Cliff Kirkpatrick I know is not ashamed of the gospel: a lifelong Presbyterian, a mission-minded Presbyterian, a compassionate person and a dedicated husband and father of two Presbyterian ministers. It is a shame that we have been reduced to such inflamed, unchristian rhetoric to describe a faithful, fellow Presbyterian minister like Cliff Kirkpatrick. That I am definitely ashamed of! Dr. Don McGarity Gainesville, Fla. Adhere to Paul's admonition that we contend for the faith May 5, 2004 And so it goes! Our leaders at most levels above the local church, who disproportionately represent liberal views not truly representative of most parishioners in the pews, continue to drive our denomination to schism and destruction. It's sad that those who hold to a Biblical view are loath to give of their time to be as activist oriented as the liberals are. The title and subject of J. Gresham Machen's book, Liberalism vs. Christianity clearly and accurately defines the issue. The two beliefs are diametrically opposed and incompatible. We must adhere to the apostle Paul's admonition that we contend for the faith. Not to do so is to fail to follow the Lord's will. His command to "love one another as I have loved you" is telling. He was the model of compassion, as we must also be, to those who came to him, yet he also admonished them to "go and sin no more." We are allowing "this world" to overcome the call of our Lord to live righteous and holy lives to give honor to him. While some things do change with time, it will always be our obligation to shun the ways of this world regardless of the degree of outside pressure on our faith. The Lord himself told us that it would become much more difficult to stand firm in the faith and that only a few would adhere to the faith in the end times. It is also unfortunate that letters such as this typically are only read by "the choir," and that those who need to hear the message are least likely to pay attention. May God forgive us our apostasy and guide us back to real faith which recognizes his righteousness and our call to strive toward it. Bill Seiden Community Presbyterian Church Vacaville, Calif. This, too, will be overturned on appeal May 4, 2004 I'm not surprised that the Synod of the Covenant ruled against the PJC of the Presbytery of Cincinnati and suggested that the Directory For Worship is ambiguous regarding the nature of marriage as reserved for one man and one woman. Remember, this is the same Synod PJC which ruled 8-1 against per capita being voluntary (Minihan and Richards v. Scioto Valley Presbytery). What the Synod of the Covenant PJC saw so clearly regarding per capita was subsequently overturned by the GAPJC 12-0 in July 2003 (a slam dunk! Thanks be to God). I have no doubt this too will be overturned on appeal. In the meantime, it once again shows us the tortured reasoning of the most liberal elements in the PCUSA. I guess the Synod of the Covenant PJC just enjoys having their verdicts overturned. The Rev. Dr. John C. Minihan First Presbyterian Church Newark, Ohio (A Confessing Church) And they dare call themselves a 'court' May 4, 2004 It is not legal to marry same sex couples in Ohio. Ahh, so now it is proper for a minister of the Word to violate state law. And these people dare call themselves a "court!" Tom Taggart, attorney at law Athens, Ohio Synod court majority should be ashamed of decision May 4, 2004 The sophistry used by the Permanent Judicial Commission of the Synod of the Covenant in the Van Kuiken appeal is the sort of humbug that leaves so many of us Bible-believing, Constitution-supporting Presbyterians sickened and scandalized. The members of that PJC who wrote the majority opinion should hang their heads in shame for this farce that only leads to the continued decline and disgrace of a once great denomination. But, of course, they won't. And we should not be surprised. The Bible tells us that there will be false leaders among us who will introduce destructive heresies that deny the sovereign Lord and bring the truth into disrepute. Thankfully the Scriptures encourage the faithful that "their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping" (2 Peter 2:1-3). I keep wondering how much more provocation it will take until God's faithful people finally rise up and shout "Enough is enough" and cast out the heretics and unbelievers among us. Rev. Bill Pawson Westminster Community Church (a Confessing Church) Canton, Ohio One word May 4, 2004 One word in response to this ruling. "Ichabod" Paul H. McKay Can PCUSA leadership read? May 4, 2004 The following from the current Layman Online makes me wonder whether the whole problem is that no one in the PCUSA church structure above the congregational level can read. "For Christians marriage is a covenant through which a man and a woman are called to live out together before God their lives of discipleship." "a synod court has declared that the denomination's constitution and its highest court do not prohibit Presbyterian ministers from 'marrying' same-gender couples." Maybe the solution to the problem is as simple as sending them all back to elementary school for remedial reading. Or, is it possible to read "man and woman" and "same gender couples" as synonymous? Jack Kime Maryville, Ill. Another nail in the coffin of the PCUSA May 4, 2004 If it wasn't so sad, it would truly be funny. As it stands, this synod's split decision is another nail in the coffin of the PCUSA. Having dug graves during a college summer break, I recall a coffin is "nailed down" after the corpse is put in it. Your other headlines are also revealing. Resulting from financial woes, staff reductions at the national level (Praise the Lord). Secondly, a manifestation of the truth found in Proverbs 25:26. Our African brothers and sisters realize that, the "natural person, cannot discern the things of the Spirit" (1 Cor 2:14). As such they have nothing in common with those who are spiritually dead. Cliff Kirkpatrick calls for "dialogue." I praise the Lord for the discernment our African brothers and sisters have. Susan Andrews calls on a homosexual activist to preach at the up-coming GA. Elenora Giddings Ivory also continues to distort the truth of the Gospel, by denying its transforming power that comes through submitting to Jesus. Kirkpatrick et.al. do not seem to understand .... "It is written." It is evident to many of us that the PCUSA consists of two types of clergy; the sons of Zadok, and the sons of Eli. The former minister in holiness to the Lord. The latter tickle ears and stand condemned for it. Jesus, revive your people! Pastor Jerry J. Voss Millbrook Church Fresno, Calif. Another example of the imperialistic attitude of the Vatican in Kentucky May 4, 2004 The Louisville comments about the "adolescent" behavior of the Presbyterian Church of East Africa are just another proof of the imperialistic attitude of the Vatican in Kentucky. In some 30 years as a PCUSA missionary in Korea, we (missionaries) were repeatedly cautioned against "imperialistic tendencies" in our dealings with the Korean Church, but the true imperialism came from Louisville. They repeatedly asked the Korean Church what type of missionary they wanted, and repeatedly ignored those requests because Louisville was sure they knew better. They also seem to forget our Lord's statement that we are to serve him as a little child (not even as an adolescent!). Their pride in human wisdom as opposed to Biblical and spiritual truth is so counter to the Scriptures that it is no wonder they down play the Scripture so much. Revival and reform are growing in the ranks. It is only a question of whether they will grow fast enough to save the organization or be forced to abandon the ship which is sinking even as Peter started to sink when his faith faltered. Dick Underwood Urbana, Ill. Moderator and stated clerk show racist paternalism May 4, 2004 The comments of our moderator, and the analysis of our stated clerk regarding our fellow Presbyterians in East Africa are examples of racist paternalism as I've seen in years. Of course these sentiments are cloaked in all of the right code words. But clearly Moderator Andrews and Stated Clerk Kirkpatrick don't know what to do when other leaders don't stay on their plantation and hew to the "enlightened party line." Donald D. Denton Jr., D.Min. Richmond, Va. Closing Washington Office would have shown better stewardship May 4, 2004 I am sad to see that the 2005-2006 mission budget eliminates 37 national staff positions. The denomination could have shown greater stewardship of its limited resources by closing down the Washington Office. I think it would be possible to advocate, and help the church to advocate, the social witness perspectives and policies of the Presbyterian General Assembly without this expensive and inefficient office. Also, revenues would increase if this office were closed. Brian Ahier The Dalles, Ore. How many more will lose jobs? May 4, 2004 It is a shame that the PCUSA had to cut 28 jobs from the national staff. However, this is what happens to a failing corporation in the business world. The truly sad part is that these are probably 28 hard-working people. What about cutting the jobs at the top? Why cannot Mr. Kirkpatrick take it upon himself to quit? Yes, it is always the "little people" that suffer and lose their jobs. The people who mismanage stay on. Is Mr. Kirkpatrick so arrogant or blind to not see what is happening under his leadership? How many more have to lose their jobs? How many more churches have to leave? David Hankins South Bend PCUSA's action and inaction speak louder than words May 4, 2004 Satan has his way in PCUSA! Leadership looks to world for guidance, not to God, Scripture, truth. 1 Cor 2:14: "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" NASU Paul, writing through the power of the Holy Spirit, clearly described the leadership of PCUSA, their actions and inaction speak louder than the words they spew forth selling their goods. Robert A. Browne, elder Clayton Presbyterian Church Clayton, Ga. We need accurate reporting May 4, 2004 I am a student at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary. I am conservative and evangelical, praying that God will work in the PCUSA to bring renewal. As are many of The Layman's readers, I am extremely frustrated by the state of the denomination today. I have been relying on The Layman for accurate information about the denomination for two years. However, I now must reconsider the accuracy of your reporting. I attended the Wabash Valley Presbytery meeting on April 27th. At the meeting I was examined and moved to candidate status in the ordination process. At the meeting I witnessed the heated debate that took place between Mr. Calvin Hawkins on behalf of the Gary church and presbytery leadership. The issue is something that has obviously been investigated and debated for years and I am not qualified to pass judgment about who is right. However, the picture you painted was extremely unbalanced and inappropriate. You painted the presbytery leadership as the bullying party, while in fact, Mr. Hawkins was the one who hijacked the meeting by blatantly speaking out of order for more than ten minutes. I sympathize with the emotion he must feel as he considers the possibility of losing his church. However, his conduct was completely un-Biblical and inappropriate. The Presbyterian form of government is based on order and authority, neither of which Mr. Hawkins respected. The presbytery may be in the wrong, put to paint Mr. Hawkins solely as a victim is not an accurate picture. At the same meeting the presbytery voted to release the First Presbyterian Church of Warsaw from the denomination. You also reported this, but wrongly reported that it was the Warsaw Presbytery that released the church. Wrong, it was the Wabash Valley Presbytery. A minor error, but coupled with the tabloid reporting about the Gary Church The Layman's credibility is now seriously in doubt in this reader's opinion. I see that both articles were written by John H. Adams. I would recommend bringing these inaccuracies to his attention. Those of us praying for renewal need The Layman. We need accurate reporting. Thank you for your consideration. Clint Tolbert The writer is correct. It was Wabash Valley Presbytery, not Warsaw. The change has been made. The Editors. Remember: The Lord is much bigger than your Louisville May 4, 2004 I am both a missionary in Africa and a staunch Calvinist. People ask me, if you're a Calvinist and if you believe in predestination, why do missions? I tell them, "Because election never saved anybody, although no one is saved apart from it. They must still be presented with the Gospel and respond to it. It pleases God to use the foolishness of preaching to bring in the elect." The door is so wide open in Africa! I just returned from leading a group of my students on a weekend visit to a village in neighboring Mozambique. We showed the Campus Crusade 1979 Jesus film (a very cost-effective means of evangelism!), preached, distributed Bibles, then I had a question-and-answer time with the Christian men there. Most amazing of all, there was a pagan funeral in the village, and we were permitted to attend and my students were allowed to speak to the very large gathering of people and present a Christian message! In the 48 hours that we were there, in spite of repeated equipment problems and other frustrations, we were able to do an incredible amount of ministry and Gospel witness. This is because a sovereign God underwrote it, not the Arminian God of "Oops! How did that happen?" Now then, your denomination is currently undergoing painful convulsions and controversies. I hope – and pray – that through it all, you will continue to mount a serious missions program. I've been following the progress of the Confessing Church Movement since 2001, and I've seen the evangelicals of the PCUSA take some hard hits. Just remember, on those difficult days, that the Lord is much bigger than your Louisville! Rev. Dr. Larry Brown African Bible College It is our right and duty to try to change the Book of Order May 4, 2004 The responses to the Beverly Heights resolution demonstrate that the right's real agenda is to make it an ecclesiastical crime to try to legally amend the Book of Order in ways you don't approve of. If you or your readers are defending the Beverly Heights resolution, please provide a simple piece of information: state an allegation of a Book of Order violation by each of the ten presbyteries named. I understand that you take issue with particular actions of Hudson River, or Baltimore ... but, for example, what has the Presbytery of Detroit done (or failed to do) other than submit a legal overture to the G.A. asking for the reversal of an authoritative interpretation? It is our right and duty to try to change the Book of Order when our conscience demands it, as long as we use constitutional means to do so. Richard Hong Bloomingdale, N.J. Are holy unions in fact marriages? May 4, 2004 Isn't it interesting that Lisa Larges and Janie Spahr both have publicly affirmed that holy unions are in fact marriages? Denominational spin artists have gone to great lengths to make the case they are significantly different. They are not. Truth can be stated simply. A lie can not be expected to be accepted as truth. Rev. Steven Seng First Presbyterian Church Wellsburg, W.Va. We need a stated clerk who is not ashamed of the Gospel May 4, 2004 Several years ago Bill Bryant, the executive director of the Outreach Foundation, shared a letter with the board of directors from one of our PCUSA mission partners that they were concerned about the direction of the PCUSA. The essence of the letter, as I remember it, was that there may soon come the time when this particular mission partner would have to break off their relationship with the PCUSA and The Outreach Foundation. This Third World Church realized that theological integrity was more important than receiving money from non-believers. In response the Outreach Foundation drafted a confessional statement to clarify its beliefs. The confessional statement was similar to the early CCM statements and was adopted almost word-for-word by a number of congregations that did join the Confessing Church Movement. Several directors on the board were pastors or elders of congregations which joined the Confessing Church Movement. Considering the growing defiance against both God's Word and our constitution by individuals and governing bodies within the PCUSA, I am surprised that more of our overseas partners have not taking the same step. The most tragic aspect of this whole event has been Clifton Kirkpatrick's glib response to suggest dialogue between the two denominations. Does he think that the PCEA is going to reject the truth of God's Word simply to maintain a financial relationship with the PCUSA? When King David was confronted with his sin, he did not say to Nathan, "Let's get together and talk about it." Instead, David confessed, mourned and repented of his sin by engaging in an extended period of confession, mourning, and prayer. David's heart was broken. If Clifton Kirkpatrick were a true spiritual leader, he would have called the PCUSA to a time of confession, mourning, and repentance. Unfortunately, Clifton Kirkpatrick's heart is not broken because he does not recognize the sin. We need a stated clerk who meditates on God's Word day and night and will not turn from it either to the left or the right (see Joshua 1:6-9). Clifton Kirkpatrick has lead us astray long enough. At best he is a hired-hand (see John 10:12-13) leading the sheep of the PCUSA into a pack of wolves. I beseech the commissioners to this year's General Assembly to realize that the PCUSA cannot survive four more years of Clifton Kirkpatrick's failed leadership. We need a stated clerk who is not ashamed of the Gospel. I'm not! We need a stated clerk who is Christ-centered, Biblically-grounded, and theologically reformed. I am! If I were stated clerk, I would have responded to the actions of the Presbyterian Church of East Africa by calling the church to confess, to mourn, and to repentance. L Rus Howard Candidate for stated clerk

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