April 2005 letters Archives of letters to the editor

Is the crowd in Louisville resorting to 'selective constitutionality?' April 25, 2005 While this is obviously a troubled church with some apparent internal conflict, perhaps the most disturbing part of this controversy is the alleged assertion by the COM [page 6] that "Constitutional Services (of the GA) had advised the COM not to speak to the session [of Hollywood Presbyterian Church]." If that was in fact the recommendation, why would the arm of the denomination charged with offering such advice elect to ignore Scriptural and constitutional injunctions mandating an effort to work together rather than creating adversarial relations? Is this another case of that crowd in Louisville resorting to "selective constitutionality?" (And isn't it sad that that was the first thing that came to my mind?) M.R. McCarty, elder Forks of the Brandywine Presbyterian Church Layman coverage has confused the Hollywood issues April 25, 2005 Your coverage of Hollywood Presbyterian Church has confused legitimate stewardship and pastoral concerns within that congregation with your larger complaint against theological liberalism within the denomination. As a former delegate from Hollywood Pres to the Presbytery of the Pacific, I was called upon twice to speak there in favor of traditional standards for ordination. I found the presbytery to be civil, measured and orderly, regardless of whether more liberal members of its leadership disagreed with me. Presbytery and its committees knew and carried out the denominational constitution far better than most member congregations did. It is ironic that The Layman, which cares greatly about accountability when it relates to ordination standards, becomes accountability-deaf in the context of stewardship and pastoral missteps at Hollywood Pres. While Dr. Meenan's positive legacy at HPC includes helping launch a vibrant young adult worshipping community that will hopefully survive the current turmoil, his legacy otherwise is problematic at best. Presbyterian liberals have long nursed a grievance against The Layman, suspecting that your publication does not relish modeling the love of Christ as much as you relish a good scuffle when it suits your biases. Wittingly or not, you have provided fuel to those grievances through your coverage of HPC. HPC still might have new life as an evangelical bastion, and still could have something powerful to say to the world – if people on all sides of the pastoral controversy can be willing to see God as the necessary victor of the debate and not any one group of partisans. Can The Layman help toward this end? Rob Asghar Member of the 1996-1997 HPC Pastoral Nominating Committee that called Dr. Alan Meenan Former HPC Session member Web site created by those opposing actions against Hollywood church April 25, 2005 A privately-funded Web site, www.savehollywoodpres.com, is being maintained by a team of concerned Hollywood Presbyterian Church elders and congregants who oppose the Committee on Ministry's actions to dissolve our relationship with our two pastors and take over our session. From this Web site you can view all the latest information related to the May 3 presbytery meeting. In particular, two documents are posted: (a) Letter to the COM from 16 session elders, (b) Letter to the presbytery voters put together by a team of session elders and congregants. Please forward this website info to others. Jon Thomasson, member Hollywood Presbyterian Church Glad that so many within the PCUSA still hold to Biblical Christianity April 25, 2005 Five years ago I was asked to leave the mission field because I held to Reformed doctrines. Once back in the States I began to search for a Reformed church. I attended a PCA church and still do. As a newcomer to this side of the church, I was curious about all the different groups and activities that "Reformed" Christians were a part of. When the PCUSA came up in discussion, I heard some troubling things and thought to myself I left one mess only to get into another. I found your Web site and was so moved to know that there are so many within the PCUSA who still hold to Biblical Christianity. God bless you all and may your work lead to true unity among all Christians! Sam Khoury Former PCUSA pastor felt 'relief' when received by EPC April 25, 2005 I have just returned from a meeting of the Central-South Presbytery, EPC. We received a congregation from the PCUSA that is in Laredo, Texas. The pastor had to be examined and received by presbytery. He said some things from his heart that had everybody close to tears. He told us how his congregation consisted of 40 members, and 30 children, nine of whom had been adopted. He said it was that reason they couldn't stomach the PCUSA support for partial-birth abortion. When asked his view of Scripture, he said that he would be "tarred and feathered" by his former denomination for his views, which was that Scripture is inerrant and infallible. He said that he felt relief in being received by us; the battles he had been fighting had now come to an end. He went on to say that he still looked upon the PCUSA as his "mother," through whom he had come to faith. He said that if we were looking for someone to condemn the PCUSA, we would not find him an ally. Yet he felt that his "mother," whom he still loved deeply, had gone "a-whoring," and that therefore he had no choice but to come out. I would urge all of the remaining evangelicals of the PCUSA to take the same attitude. Yes, the PCUSA is your spiritual mother who in the past nurtured you. You should remember the nurturing aspect and cherish the good things that your mother provided; never stop loving that. But recognize, too, that she has not remained true to the Lord, that she has in fact betrayed the faith of your fathers. Then you will see that you have no choice but to come out, however reluctantly, like Laredo did. Those of us who are in the EPC are proud of what we are accomplishing in evangelism, missions and new church development. Rev. Dr. Larry Brown African Bible College Lilongwe, Malawi 33 percent of Hollywood Presbyterian elders did not sign letter to presbytery April 25, 2005 Don't you have to wonder why the letter was not signed by all of the members of session? All current ruling elders are thoughtful people of character and love God and his Word. The fact that 33 percent of them are not on the letter indicates that there are serious issues that are not easily addressed in a forum like this. Marker Karahadian, off-session elder FPCH Letter was not signed by 8 of the 24 elders currently serving on session April 25, 2005 It should be noted that the letter you referred to in your recent article "Hollywood elders ask Pacific Presbytery to cancel meeting" was not signed by 8 of the 24 elders currently serving on session. Sparky Jamison, elder Hollywood Presbyterian Church Article on Hollywood Presbyterian 'insightful' April 25, 2005 Thanks so very much for your insightful news item concerning the response of session to the acts of COM at Hollywood Presbyterian. Keep it up. John Hughes Leadership in Louisville is taking the church down to destruction April 25, 2005 While the PCUSA seeks to be an apostate church, the Presbyterian Church of East Africa is severing ties with the PCUSA. The leadership in Louisville does not get it, nor seeks to "get it," and the result is schism. PCUSA members and churches are leaving, and if the trend continues, the PCUSA will be an orphan band of apostates. It is coming to the point that confessing churches will have to split from the parent apostate body, and continue the PCUSA as Reformed, Evangelical, Calvinistic. Whether the new body can legally keep PCUSA will be another matter, but something has to be done; otherwise, the leadership in Louisville is out of control, sinful, apostate and taking the church down to destruction. Lou. S. Nowasielski Wilmington, DE A pastor's pension should not be affected by his ecclesiastical status April 25, 2005 R. Glen Traver [letter to the editor, posted April 22, 2005] asks about the implications of a split for ministers and their pensions. Assuming the minister is a vested member of the plan, his pension should not be affected by his ecclesiastical status. From the Board of Pensions website: Pension Plan Vesting A member's credits are non-forfeitable (vested) as soon as the member completes three years of eligible service. Employment by an eligible church employing organization for at least 20 hours a week counts toward vesting even if the employee was not enrolled in the benefits plan. Full-time attendance at seminary also counts for ordained ministers who serve in a validated ministry of the church following ordination. the member attains age 65. the employer withdraws from the plan. the pension plan terminates. Withdrawing from the denomination would be withdraw from the plan. The minister could not, of course, continue to accrue pension benefits in the current plan, but those already accumulated would not be forfeit. Rev. Ken Haines, temporary supply Franklin, Ruddle, and Upper Tract Presbyterian Churches Member at Large, Shenandoah Presbytery It would be helpful to offer evidence the insinuated reality is true April 25, 2005 A recent contributor has hinted [even quite strongly] that a primary element of the New Wineskins Initiative is a leading of member churches out of the PCUSA; the thinly veiled insinuation actually feels like an assertion of fact. I'm not sure if this perplexes or frustrates me more. If the primary intent of New Wineskins is to assist, if not lead the way, in a separation of our denomination, is New Wineskins that devious? If the insinuation not true, why the flap and the also thinly disguised disdain toward the Initiative? It seems to me it would be more helpful to offer evidence the insinuated reality is true rather than raise unhelpful suspicion. Rev. Steven L. Seng First Presbyterian Church Wellsburg, W.Va. Christian day school uses the KJV for classroom reading and memory work April 22, 2005 I have been reading The Layman for the past several years and respect your Christian courage and convictions. I read with interest Walter Taylor's recent review of The Reformation Study Bible. However, I must take issue with Pastor Taylor at one point. It was over ten years' ago when a friend of mine who then worked as an editor for R.C. Sproul (father and son) recommended that they employ the NKJV instead of the NIV as the Bible text for The New Geneva Study Bible. Now, of that version, Mr. Taylor writes: "The other drawback was that it used the NKJV, a version that has a following, but does not have wide appeal." Possibly, but the "drawback" is that neither The New Geneva Study Bible nor The Reformation Study Bible is available in the KJV, the English Bible that this Presbyterian "cut his teeth on." In fact, in our Christian day school, we use only the KJV for classroom reading and memory work. We have found The Defined King James Bible to be a good school Bible. The best of all possible worlds would be if The Reformation Study Bible were available in the KJV, the NKJV, the ESV, the NASB, and the NIV to cover all the bases among English-speaking, Bible-believing Presbyterians! George T. Thompson Christ Presbyterian School Is New Wineskins a movement of men and women, or of the Spirit? April 22, 2005 I have to agree with Dr. Larry Brown [letter to the editor, posted April 20, 2005] who suspects the New Wineskins convocation will degenerate into nothing more than "one big pep rally." Until New Wineskins musters the courage to tell the world that their goal is separation from an apostate denomination, they will fail to engage even those teetering on the edge of renouncement of PCUSA authority. That's a real shame, too, because they're raising expectations that will be shattered when absolutely nothing substantive happens to set us free. Are you being coy? Are you thinking this is a political movement and a diplomatic period is necessary before announcing your true intentions? Are you uncertain of your own direction? Is this a movement of men and women, or of the Spirit? If you New Wineskinners don't have the courage to lead us out ... why should we follow you? Jack O'Brien Pittsburgh, Pa. Nationally syndicated talk show host criticizes PCUSA leadership April 22, 2005 On Thursday, April 21, on Dennis Prager's nationally syndicated radio show, he repeated a Sept 29, 2004 program in his Best of Prager Hour: "Academia Gone Wild: Rachel Corrie Award." Dennis talks to the Harriet Malinowitz, a professor of English at Long Island University, admirer of Rachel Corrie, and administrator of the Rachel Corrie Courage in Teaching Award. Also, Dennis continues his criticism of the leftist PCUSA, the Protestant Church leadership council that is pressing for a boycott of Israel." Layman readers can listen to this broadcast by going to www.dennisprager.com My point in advising your readers about this broadcast is that millions of radio listeners heard Dennis Prager say the following about the PCUSA leadership in just the first two minutes of his hour-long program. 1. "There is not a shred of morality left in the heads of those who run that church." 2. "The religious left is more cockamamie than the secular left because they are morally confused in the name of Christ." 3. "Real evil does not bother these people." We have a denomination that is losing thousands of members each year. We have a denomination with three churches in the last 10 days announcing they are leaving or taking a vote to leave. We have a denomination where several members have left solely due to the Israel divestment resolution. We have a denomination where many members are threatening to leave because of the Israel divestment resolution. We have a denomination that can ill afford to have a nationally syndicated radio talk show host say these statements about our leadership. Whether Dennis Prager is accurate in his assessments of the PCUSA leadership is not the issue. What is relevant is that his nationally syndicated radio audience heard him say these words. Not only have people heard these words from Prager, they have read similar words from many journalists. How many unchurched have been attracted to a PCUSA sanctuary because of the highly negative press they have heard or read about our denominational leadership's position on Israel? Presbyterians, only you can put a stop to this highly negative press. You can sign your name to the petition calling upon the 216th General Assembly to return in special session and have a fair and balanced debate on the divestment resolution. The petition is available for signing by going to www.PcusaPetition.org. More than 1,500 of your fellow Presbyterians have made that decision to publicly state their position by signing the petition. Larry Rued, elder First Presbyterian Church Bradenton, Fla. Can't prove she was kidnapped, but can't disprove it either April 22, 2005 Thank you for the light you bring to the church. I have long appreciated it. Some of your facts regarding the Foursquare Church are not accurate – her son did not take over the congregation of Angelus Temple although he was involved in the denominational headquarters until 1988 and still has a peripheral role to this day. Also, although she was accused of staging her own kidnapping – the Los Angeles Times was the first to report this and the LA district attorney ran with it – it was never substantiated. Although nobody can prove that she was kidnapped, neither can anybody prove she was not, and your article insinuated that it was a made up story. Epstein writes a fair biography on her life (Sister Aimee) that is neither pro nor anti, just a balanced perspective, although I do think he was intrigued by her ability to communicate to people and the dynamic life she lived. I hope you will continue to bring light to the struggles in the PCUSA. Jeffrey W Espeseth, director of youth ministry Mount Soledad Presbyterian Church Has Lay Committee given up on PCUSA? April 22, 2005 I note that you are, more and more, emphasizing churches seeking to leave our denomination with their properties. Also, the last letter from you office solicited monies to help further investigations into more churches doing the same. Does this mean you have given up on the denomination and it all comes down to how we can leave with our properties intact. Has the other side become so strong that there is no hope left for our branch of Christiandom? If such a split does take place, what does it do to those of us who are ministers and our pensions? You never have dealt with this very important part of the problem. Please advise. R. Glen Traver New Wineskins Convocation will include discussion, votes April 20, 2005 Thanks to Rev. Jim Henkel for taking part in the New Wineskins conversation. There will be numerous opportunities for people to learn, discuss, suggest changes and vote on the New Wineskins' vision and documents before and during the New Wineskins Convocation starting on Wednesday, June 15 at 7:00 pm. and adjourning by noon on Saturday, June 18, 2005 in Minneapolis. Please see the New Wineskins Convocation Web site for more details. The plenary sessions, "Introduction to New Wine and New Wineskins, Part I and Part II," will outline the proposed constitutional system and possible strategies for moving forward. There will also be a workshop entitled, "New Wineskins in Depth" on Thursday. Following the workshops on both Thursday and Friday, there will be optional opportunities to discuss the topics of the day. Additionally, there is a daylong pre-conference workshop on understanding the New Wineskins Initiative and proposed Constitutional changes. On Saturday morning, a delegates meeting will be convened. It is during this time that voting delegates from endorsing congregations will take actions on the proposed documents and other matters. These actions may include the endorsement or further revision of documents, an agreement on "next steps", initiating efforts as called for by delegates (e.g. property, leadership, etc.), and the election of a board. An endorsing congregation is one whose session has voted to affirm the New Wineskins vision statement, the statement of faith essentials and the declaration of ethical imperatives in their working draft format. For continued discussion, please go to http://www.newwineconvo.com/forum.html. Renee Guth New Wineskins board member PCUSA leadership has positioned itself in rebellion against God and his Word April 20, 2005 I would like to say that I certainly support those desiring to promote change within the PCUSA. However, I think if you look at church history, churches that have sought to actively promote and practice sexual immorality and/or heresy never seem to come back to a Christian faith and practice. The PCUSA leadership has positioned itself in rebellion against God and his Word (I think the current Layman can show multiple examples). I believe this to be a very dangerous place to be and can no longer support or affiliate with the PCUSA and have left and sought a call in a PCA church. I would encourage those of you who have not "bent your knee to Baal" to leave now. The church renewal groups in the old Southern church were a failure; the renewal groups in the old Northern church were a failure; and although I have supported the Confessing Church movement, it too is a failure. Andrew L. McCaskill Former PCUSA Youth Director Pastors at Hollywood Presbyterian speak the Word of God April 20, 2005 I received an e-mail from the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood a few days ago, and it listed the general concerns that the COM had regarding the leadership of our pastors. The information we received is that the actions taken by the COM are administrative, not judicial. It would be my hope in such a case, that the COM could assist the pastors, session and congregation to resolve these issues with mediation and assistance, rather than take such drastic steps as to ask our pastors to resign. Also, the two pastors seem to always be lumped together on these concerns. If they seem entwined, is not one role of an associate pastor to support the head of staff? I have the privilege to attend the celebration service which Dr Manock leads. I also attended the class for pre-married couples, in which he was also involved in the leadership. His style is both warm and informative. He is an outstanding leader. I cannot speak regarding Dr. Meenanwithout being involved with him more closely, but I will say of both of the two pastors that from the front of the sanctuary, the Word of God is always spoken by them. They speak the truth from where I sit, and I am truly grateful for them. Katy Bynre Member FPCH COM refuses to state why they want to take such action against pastors April 20, 2005 I am a member of FPCH. I am heartbroken at what is happening at my church. Actually I do not really know all the facts. The COM refuses to state openly why they want to take such drastic action against the senior pastor and associate pastor. I wonder how this must look to the rest of the world? I have been greatly blessed with the sermons and teachings of Dr. Meenan and Dr. Manock. Both pastors deserve due process, and the congregation should be told the facts. Also those who are calling for the resignations of Meenan and Manock should state openly why they feel this way. The majority of the congregation does not want Dr. Meenan and Dr. Manock to leave, including me. You would think these two gifted men committed mass murder the way this soap opera is playing out. I pray the truth would be revealed and that something good would come out of this tragic situation. Gloria Gonzales Glendale, Calif. New Wineskins event will be one big, but quickly forgotten, pep rally April 20, 2005 I agree that the property issue is an appropriate one for the New Wineskins event to discuss. I hope that other court decisions will be in favor of local congregations wishing to break away from liberal mainline denominations. But the big question in my mind is, just how do the backers of New Wineskins propose to get their agenda accepted by the non-evangelical power structure? Isn't it a bit like the colonies asking King George III to grant them independence without a fight? I suspect that in the end, New Wineskins will just be one big pep rally, which will be quickly forgotten. Rev. Dr. Larry Brown African Bible College Lilongwe, Malawi Property battle will show how presbytery, PCUSA ignore Scripture April 18, 2005 The Church of Ridgebury in New York deserves our prayers. May God be with them as they act on Biblical principal. The best course for the Hudson River Presbytery is to leave the situation alone and not attempt to take the property. But I expect the presbytery will not act in the best interest of serving the Lord but will be disposed toward war on the small congregation. That war will tell the world just how Scripture is being ignored by the Hudson River Presbytery and the PCUSA. I wonder if the session of the Hollywood Presbyterian Church in California is getting any ideas. This will all be interesting to watch. Philip Pettus San Gabriel, Calif. Neither liberals nor conservatives should be treated with such contempt April 18, 2005 The Rev. William R. Pawson writes a most interesting letter [posted April 15, 2005]. He notes: "I was disappointed, but not surprised, at the story of the apparent ham-handedness of another COM invading a church, bypassing due process by concealing the names of the complainers, and preparing to oust evangelical ministers who are growing a church through new and innovative worship programs that actually reach people with the gospel on the strength of rumors and unsubstantiated charges by a group of cowards. Yes, that should be exactly the label for them, since they seem not to have had the courage to make their names or complaints known to the session first rather than opting to by-pass their elders and getting a COM to do their dirty work for them." Perhaps Mr. Pawson suffers from memory loss. A couple of years ago a COM of the Presbytery of Cincinnati effectively invaded my church, Mount Auburn Presbyterian, and ousted my pastor, Steve Van Kuiken, who likewise was bringing about growth to the church. And what resulted was indeed dirty work. I can relate. So of course I find a problem with Mr. Pawson's statement "I find it strange that in the number of times I've seen this process played out in 15 years of ministry that the pastors involved were never liberals. I guess that evangelical pastors don't qualify for due process." Liberals have been involved and most painfully. The bottom line is neither liberals nor conservatives should be treated with such contempt. Nor should any other brother or sister in Christ be so treated. But it happens. This is such a sad commentary on us who are part of the Body of Christ and Presbyterians. Earl C. Apel, member Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church Cincinnati, Ohio Writer commends Layman editorials April 18, 2005 Thank the Lord for Kenneth Taylor's work which became the Living Bible. My mother introduced me to the early "Living Letters" series when I was a relatively new Christian. My wife and I went on to use the Living Bible as a help in study and teaching in an ecumenical prayer and praise group for more than 20 years. I still quote from it regularly as the two of us team teach a Bible study group in our church. Many is the time I went back to check out my old King James version, after marveling at a passage in the Living Bible and saying to myself, "Does the Bible really say that?" And, oh, the joy in finding that KJV really did say that, only I had not grasped the real meaning until Dr. Taylor explained it. Truly the Lord does find ways to "Feed a hungry heart, not just to scratch an itching intellect" as the late Derek Prince said. Re: Declaring sin not to be sin Well said! Most lucid and non-judgmental statement I have seen in print. Keep up the good work. Dick Carter, inactive elder Covenant Presbyterian Church Amarillo, Texas Don't provide funds to those who won't play by the rules April 18, 2005 This is one more example of the out of control element of the PCUSA and those persons who defy the Book of Order of the Presbyterian Church and expect those of us in the pews to like it or lump it. I decided some time back that I will not provide funds to any group or individual who does not play by the rules. Bud Olinger, elder First Presbyterian Church El Dorado Springs, Mo. Stop blaming, shut up and wait until more facts can be ascertained April 18, 2005 It appears to me that there is a whole lot more to the story about the events and happenings at Hollywood PC than anyone can decipher through the articles and letters printed here. For all I know, the problems may have nothing to do with theological positions. It should be obvious to most that controversies, problems and struggles occur within all theological stripes. Also, there are phonies, fakes and frauds of every theological persuasion. I think it is time to stop blaming, shut up and wait until more facts can be ascertained, verified, and carefully reported. Let us remember, "The church's one foundation is Jesus Christ, her Lord." And when it is, "The truth will out." I suggest people take a step back, open both ears, close their one mouth and let the truth be revealed. I don't know the facts, and I don't think the people who have written so viciously on this website do either. John Pehrson Salina, Kansas If Hollywood Presbyterian is evangelical, why isn't it a part of CCM? April 18, 2005 The letters keep flying about FPCH with some saying they are in confusion others declaring that it is very much a Biblical and evangelical congregation. My only question is this: "If they are so Biblical and eEvangelical, why is it that I do not find that congregation listed as a Confessing Church?" Hopefully, I just overlooked it, and if so, mea culpa! I personally have sincere doubts about any PCUSA congregation being anything other than part of the "liberal left" if it refuses to openly declare (for whatever lame excuses it offers) the three tenets of the Confessing Church Movement. What a privilege and bold and faithful witness it is to confess those three tenets openly and publicly. Jesus is honored when we do! Jasper McClellan Presbytery should support pastors April 18, 2005 I am from the South. I really don't know why the presbytery would call for these two pastors to leave their church. Jesus stated that if you have a problem with you brother then go to him and talk about it. Don't hide it. This seems to me that a few of the sheep got their wool wet and did not like it, and must have a great deal of pull with the presbytery and is willing to break the congregation up to effect their own will. I always thought that the presbytery was to support the pastors in their plan to reach souls. The pastors should have their finger on the pulse of the congregation and be able to minister to the flock. If he feels – or the elders as a whole feel – that he does not, then it is the elders duty to remove the pastors. Your article does not support this. So the question is still the reason why. Get it out in the open so everyone can see. David Jackson Another COM bypasses due process April 15, 2005 I was disappointed, but not surprised, at the story of the apparent ham-handedness of another COM invading a church, bypassing due process by concealing the names of the complainers, and preparing to oust evangelical ministers who are growing a church through new and innovative worship programs that actually reach people with the gospel on the strength of rumors and unsubstantiated charges by a group of cowards. Yes, that should be exactly the label for them, since they seem not to have had the courage to make their names or complaints known to the session FIRST rather than opting to by-pass their elders and getting a COM to do their dirty work for them. Didn't we see something like this several years back – albeit on a smaller scale because the downtown church had already suffered such tremendous decline – when the faithful, talented and innovative pastor of First Church, Miami, Rev. Michael Girolimon, was shamefully run off from his position and out of the denomination in the Presbytery of Tropical Florida? These kinds of situations are enough to make me vomit – regardless of what the accusations are or their veracity. Apparently the COM isn't about to name the accusers nor specify the issues. At least I don't expect them to do so until they present the removal of these pastors as a fait accompli to the presbytery and ask for a vote to approve what they have already decided must happen. I find it strange that in the number of times I've seen this process played out in 15 years of ministry that the pastors involved were never liberals. I guess that evangelical pastors don't qualify for due process. May God requite the liberals according to His justice. I am certain it will NOT lack the due process they deny those whose politically incorrect (but theologically correct) views are not welcome at the table of tolerance. Tolerance... ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. Diversity! Give me a break! It's always been a con masking a power grab. How I long for God's faithful people to stand up against the heretics, apostates, and pagans who have insinuated themselves among us as wolves in sheep's clothing, and say "Enough is enough." Rev. William R. Pawson Westminster Community Church Canton, Ohio A star chamber in the Presbytery of the Pacific April 15, 2005 body In recent days, we have seen an ominous contrast happening in two presbyteries. On the one hand, we have the innuendo and accusations against two evangelical pastors at Hollywood First Presbyterian Church. With no first-hand information, basing their actions on the complaints of a few, a kind of star chamber in the Presbytery of the Pacific is bulldozing ahead to remove two fine pastors. On the other hand we have a clear case of unconstitutional action on the part of a pastor "marrying" gay couples, and his presbytery looks the other way. Until and unless our constitution is fairly and consistently upheld, our denomination is in grave danger of fracture. People will not stand by quietly as injustice and immorality are allowed by presbyteries. The most schismatic thing happening in our denomination is the complicity of some so-called presbytery leaders in affording immorality special privilege while penalizing orthodoxy. Rev. Thomas W Gray, pastor Kirk of the Hills, Presbyterian Tulsa, Oklahoma Hollywood story has 'anti-presbytery bias' April 15, 2005 I write this with some trepidation but have decided to do so, primarily because I have been a long time reader and supporter of your fine publication. However, the article regarding the Presbytery's COM's involvement at First Presbyterian of Hollywood is full of inaccuracies and innuendo, which does a disservice to your paper, the church and Hollywood Presbyterian in particular. It also has the "breathless" air of a tabloid piece. The article's reference to the "overwhelming" support of the pastors is nothing more that silly conjecture. The most vociferous voices have been those opposed to Presbytery's involvement and "in support" of the pastors in question. Its speculation as to the presbytery's "rapid" involvement, comparing a completely unsupported guess as to the number of complaints to questionable membership numbers, the "implication" of impropriety by the presbytery's vice moderator [when there are absolutely no facts in this regard] – indicate poor journalistic integrity, at best, or an anti-presbytery bias with no concern for the legitimacy or appropriateness of the COM's action. The article does not reference one individual who made a complaint nor anyone who is truly knowledgeable of the full measure of the expressed grievances. Also, one should expect (indeed, hope and demand) that the Committee on Ministry would not publicly comment upon nor reveal details of its investigation, outside the processes provided by the Book of Order and the applicable procedural rules. Yet the article implies some sinister character in COM's silence. The strong evangelical heritage of Hollywood Presbyterian may, in actuality, be the primary reason there is such strong dissent to the present pastoral leadership. A potent inheritance of Hollywood Presbyterian is dynamic, independent, spirit-filled lay leadership. This appears to be the primary focus of the COM's involvement – such voices have been silenced in the halls of HPC. The concerns are, more likely, to have been expressed for quite some time (not just over the last few months) and are more systemic than a mere reaction to a financial crisis. Hopefully, The Layman is not so short sighted and mean spirited to assume that all such actions by a presbytery are an exercise of power for the sake of "showing who's really in charge." Many of us who have lived and worshiped in the Presbyterian church and tradition may be deeply troubled by the national church's political intrigue. However, this does not and should not translate to wholesale suspicion of a presbytery's action to do its work, pursuant to the Book of Order and in accordance with the evangelical traditions of Hollywood Presbyterian. One of the benefits of Presbyterian polity is protection against unfettered and unaccountable pastoral leadership. What we should be doing is praying for First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood. The church is obviously a place of pain and anger. I dare say that few know the whole story or the full breadth of concerns. Therefore, one should not automatically assume that the Committee on Ministry is on a "witch hunt." Chances are that COM's involvement was both reluctantly taken and a long time coming. People – including The Layman – should see what the process reveals. Cliff Woosley Suggested reading for PCUSA leaders: The Bible April 15, 2005 I love my church, but more and more I am ashamed of my denomination. People with ideas like Clifton Kirkpatrick are the reason. Would be nice and, what most of us expect, if the spokesmen for our denomination would read the Bible and present those teachings. Leah Bosco East Liverpool, Ohio Christian leadership doesn't hurt academic standards April 15, 2005 Catholic Colleges often require their Presidents to be ordained priests or members of the order that created the school, yet their academic excellence doesn't suffer as a result. So maintaining high academic standards is no reason for Davidson College to abandon its requirement that its Trustees be Christians. Stephen V. Gilmore Charlotte, N.C. Property holdings $3 million, not $8 million April 15, 2005 I have been informed by our interim Senior Financial Consultant Ted Behr that the figure of $8 million worth of church property not being used for church purposes listed in your article is an exaggeration and that a more realistic amount would be $3 million. I do not know what your source is for this information, but would appreciate your correcting the article. Jeff Traintime Director of Communication Hollywood Presbyterian Church Spiritual, physical revitalization around Hollywood April 15, 2005 Thank you so much for your accurate article regarding what's going on at FPCH! I have to say reading some of the response letters is infuriating (while some gratefully encouraging). We are not, I repeat NOT in a declining urban area. Just because some of the roads are cracked and there is homelessness doesn't mean that it's not alive for Christ! There is revitalization going on in multiple areas in and around the church campus, not to mention the Hollywood/Highland renovations that were completed a few years back. Church attendence is up – and it's about quality not quantity anyway. It's about the Word not how many bodies there are. There is a renewed energy in short-term missions and active involvement among a very boisterous body at the church's third service (Contemporary Urban Experience). I believe that these detractors live in a very small bubble – as you say about 1.5 percent. The rest of us love our pastors and want to see the church flourish! The fact that they tried to oust our pastors without going to session or without the congregation's support is very ugly and not at all Biblical. Two words: due process! We have been moving with a momentum that encourages me to be an active member and if they fire our pastors, it will deal a devastating blow to a budding church that is finally seeing the light – that we are in Hollywood, and we can raise the cross over it. There's nothing wrong with that. This is where we live, and this is where Christ's presence is vitally needed! Over 700 of us don't want to see our pastor go and the dissenters are in for quite a fight – we go with God – and that means justice for our pastors and their continued ministry over a congregation who supports truth, not politics, Christ-centered living, not money matters. Karen Schumacher, member Hollywood Presbyterian Church Letter writer didn't have courage to sign his own name April 15, 2005 I would like to thank The Layman for printing the letter "Article was a political statement at Hollywood Presbyterian" by none other than the infamous C.U. Moretruth. This person's untrue, cruel and very bizarre comments are a perfect example of what we are up against at Hollywood Presbyterian. Just reading "Moretruth's" letter made me laugh and realize we have nothing to fear if these are the people making all the fuss. They are silly and Presbytery of the Pacific and their Committee on Ministry should wake up and see that. This person didn't even have the courage to sign it his or her own name. As a member for several years of Hollywood Presbyterian and someone who attends the CUE (Contemporary Urban Worship) service I have to admit I was flattered that he called me "young trendy and fashionable." I'm just a 35 year-old, stay-at-home mom with two small children and I get most of my clothes at Target. Michelle Reynolds, member Hollywood Presbyterian Church

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