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Confessing Church (for story, click here) Panic is brewing in Louisville November 7, 2001 There is obvious panic brewing in Louisville over the Confessing Church Movement. Such harsh comments and unfounded accusations from Jack Rogers only prove the legitimacy and effectiveness of this grass roots movement. Let us recognize, however, that this battle is not about perception or accusation, but truth and the historic representation of orthodox Christianity within the Presbyterian Church. Nathan Leaman Youth Director First Presbyterian Church Oostburg, Wis. CCM witnesses to third world November 6, 2001 I read the whole article of the "learned moderator" of PCUSA. I am surprised how could he be elected as the moderator. He talks about confessing every day, I ask him what is the leadership of PCUSA confessing? That PCUSA leadership does not care for the Holy Bible any more? They confess that Lord Jesus Christ is not the only Lord. I am watching Confessing Church Movement very carefully since the day it started. In my opinion it is time for all churches within PCUSA to reaffirm their confession. They need to let us -- the "uncivilized third world" people -- know that they are the people who still have faith in Lord Jesus Christ. We the Presbyterians around the world need to know that if the Presbyterians in America are still "Christian." This information and affirmation is being given to us through Confessing Church Movement. If it was not for the CCM today, we would have lost all hopes of any revival in Presbyterian denominations throughout America. I have not found a trace of any politicalization in CCM. Rt. Rev. Dr. Major (Retired) Timotheus Nasir Presbyterian Bishop of Pakistan Rogers still doesn't get it, does he? November 2, 2001 The moderator certainly gets his hackles up when things don't go his way. I will admit he is consistent: He sure doesn't like the CCM and hasn't since its inception. He still doesn't get it, does he? He's kicking against the bricks and the Church will stand and withstand his attacks, half-truths and innuendo. Give God the praise and glory!! Ken Tazelaar Waukegan Panic is brewing in Louisville about the CCM November 2, 2001 There is obvious panic brewing in Louisville over the Confessing Church Movement. Such harsh comments and unfounded accusations from Jack Rogers only prove the legitimacy and effectiveness of this grassroots movement. Let us recognize, however, that this battle is not about perception or accusation, but truth and the historic representation of orthodox Christianity within the Presbyterian Church. Nathan Leaman Youth director First Presbyterian Church Oostburg, Wis. Beat the drums for salvation of the deaf and dumb October 18, 2001 The Confessing Church Movement is critical to any self-respecting Presbyterian, God-fearing Christian. The fact that so many despise this movement indicates how secular and satanic many within the church have become. The wool must be lifted from the eyes of these unbelievers. We must keep beating the drum so that salvation can be heard by these deaf and dumb! May God bless The Layman! Jeff McGinnis Coshocton, Ohio Former moderators won't douse fire October 18, 2001 Former moderators of the PCUSA are why the Church is where it is today. Sending some of them to dissuade evangelicals will be like dispatching a gasoline truck to douse a fire. I am quite fed up with the current moderator's carping about who is causing schism. If one does not adhere to the three simple tenets expressed in the Confessing Church Movement – that Jesus Christ is Lord and the only way to salvation; that Scripture is the complete word of God and our authority for doctrine and that we should live righteously in obedience to God's law as found in the Old and New Testaments – then that individual is not part of the Church. Let's get on with it. We have the very best kind of start with 1,000 congregations proclaiming in definitive terms what it is we believe. Earl H. Tilford Jr. Grove City, Pa. Moderator insults our intelligence October 18, 2001 As I was reading the PNS news story, "Church leaders Say Split is a Possibility," linked to the notice about it on The Layman Online I was forced to stop and look in a mirror. I needed to see if I had "stupid" tattooed on my forehead. Fortunately I did not. But Jack Rogers must think most Presbyterians are just that. Why else would he talk to us as he does? I refer to his comments about how bad he feels "for the hundreds of churches that are getting (drawn) in [to the Confessing Church Movement] not knowing what they're getting into." And in the next breath he insults the intelligence of the people of these same churches because "the CCM's three confessions – that Jesus Christ is the only Savior, that Scripture is infallible, and that sexual behavior should be reserved for marriage – are stances that virtually all Presbyterian churches already endorse." So let me get this straight. The congregations of hundreds of churches are getting "drawn" into the CCM in ignorance because they affirm a stance that "virtually all Presbyterian churches already endorse." But they do so "… not knowing what they're getting into?" Huh? I must have missed something, Jack. But what I didn't miss while you were so helpfully pointing out that "schism is a sin" is that homosexual fornication is a sin. And teaching others that evil is good and good is evil is a sin. And in those Scriptures you claim virtually all of us recognize as infallible I didn't miss Jesus saying something about the fate reserved for those who cause one of his little ones to stumble. Want to keep the church unified, Jack? Read my forehead. We Presbyterians are not stupid. Mr. Moderator, I admonish you in the name of Jesus Christ, affirm the truth of the Word of God and lead this church back to orthodoxy. Then you will see real unity in the body of Christ. Anything less is just so much sound and fury signifying nothing that will glorify God or help people enjoy him forever. Rev. Bill Pawson Pembroke Pines, Fla. Well informed session voted for Confessing Church October 18, 2001 The Covenant Presbyterian Church session joined the Confessing Church Movement after they studied the issues very carefully and were fully aware of what they were doing. This is contrary to what Moderator Rogers and Stated Clerk Kirkpatrick are saying about churches that have joined the Confessing Church Movement in thinking that Confessing Church Movement churches are not fully informed. Covenant had three attorneys on our session at the time we joined the Confessing Church Movement. One is an adjunct professor at the Creighton University Law School. All of our elders are deeply committed Christians who are very informed. Our session has heard little talk about Confessing Churches that are leaving the denomination since we became a part of this movement in early August. But, we are deeply concerned for Biblical truth in light of Amendment A and other debates going on in the Presbyterian Church (USA). Covenant is a 670-member, healthy and growing congregation, with a 108-year history located in Omaha, Neb. Our session was gravely concerned about the possibility of an exodus of our members who were shocked by the news that came out of the 213th General Assembly. Currently Covenant is in a $1.8-million building project that will soon add a Family Life Center to Covenant's ministry and mission. Our senior pastor, the Rev. Jeremy Grant, has done an excellent job in leading the session and Covenant members through the capital campaign and building project – at the same time dealing with the internal conflicts and unrest that the congregation experienced because of the actions of the 213th General Assembly. Currently we have 21 new members in our New Members Class that started early in September. We already have 10 visitors who have indicated the past two Sundays that they desire to become active members here at Covenant. They will join others in the next New Members Class starting October 21st. We believe this is happening because of the commitments made by our session when joining the Confessing Church Movement. The research in Longfield's study, The Presbyterian Controversy: Fundamentalists, Modernists, and Moderates (New York: Oxford University Press, 1991), highlights the following statement in light of the Presbyterian Church (USA) membership decline (2 million members since 1967, 500,000 within the last 10 years, nearly 35,000 member loss as reported by the Presbyterian News Service for 1999 in the spring of 2000):
Sessions and pastors who are part of the Confessing Church Movement within the Presbyterian Church (USA) have grown up in families who are Presbyterians. Many of us have attended Presbyterian colleges and seminaries, as was my case and that of my colleague and senior pastor here at Covenant. Many Confessing Church Movement sessions and pastors don't intend to go anywhere, but we are confessing and standing for the truth regarding the teachings of Jesus Christ revealed in the Bible and confessed by the Church for 2,000 years. Joining the Confessing Church Movement enabled some Presbyterians in a time of theological crisis, during a time when "theological identity" is of the utmost of importance, to remain faithful to the vows they have taken as ordained officers of the church. The Confessing Church Movement congregations that we have visited with are not leaving the denomination, but they are intent on communicating the priorities they have identified in the confessions, namely:
The Confessing Church Movement is giving many Presbyterians and congregations, clear theological identity, reasons to stay within congregations that seek to uphold these truths and providing hope for the renewal of the Presbyterian Church (USA). I would ask Moderator Rogers and Stated Clerk Kirkpatrick to please refrain from making negative comments about the Confessing Church Movement, for the sake of the peace, purity, unity and truth of the Presbyterian Church (USA). The Rev. Dr. Kevin McDonald Associate Pastor Covenant Presbyterian Church Omaha, Neb. A callous use of the Lord's money October 18, 2001 Is the Office of the General Assembly really so callous as to use the Lord's money to discourage churches from accepting a very Biblical confession as presented by the Confessing Church Movement? I ask the OGA and Dr. Rogers this question, "What is unBiblical about the three statements that the Confessing Church asks us to accept?" I realize that the three statements are in opposition to the 2001 General Assembly's weak statement about the Lordship of Christ and are an affront to the politically correct spin that the General Assembly Council-controlled General Assembly has on homosexuality and fidelity in marriage. Moderator Jack Rogers, Stated Clerk Clifton Kirkpatrick and GAC members should be leading lay people to a better understanding of Scripture as recorded in the Bible, not as recorded in Louisville. They should be encouraging faith-building instead of promoting heresy that in the end will result in schism in the PCUSA. Sending out former moderators sympathetic to the cause of the Covenant Network is like sending the fox out to guard the henhouse. The former moderators have purposefully aided the demise of the PCUSA over the past years. Their going out now will only add fuel to the fire. This will probably be the final straw in many sessions' decision on withholding the per-capita payments to Louisville. Bill Arthur Tucson, Ariz. 'The gang that couldn't shoot straight' October 18, 2001 I continue to be amazed at our denominational leadership. They are truly becoming the proverbial "gang that couldn't shoot straight." It really would be funny if it were not such a sad and serious situation. It seems to me that every single step they take is a misstep. Our self-proclaimed "bridge-building" moderator seems to be burning down every bridge he comes to. In his concern to do something, he is doing all the wrong things. With every speech and action, he seems intent on alienating and driving away our denomination's traditionalists and conservatives. I find it hard to believe that all the folks who have joined the Confessing Church Movement are being sucked into some horrible pit that only our moderator and clerk can see. I do not think that the Confessing Churches are that naïve, that uninformed, that blind, that docile or that bereft of the Holy Spirit. The Confessing Church Movement has been a chance for the overlooked, the ignored, the continually embarrassed and the condescended to to stand up and unambiguously declare what they believe in and where they stand (unlike our denomination in recent years). Why is it that the Confessing Church Movement draws such cries of concern when there are liberal churches that ignore our constitution, violate it and blatantly say that they will continue to do so in the future? Where is the concern there? Shouldn't such blatant and arrogant disregard for the constitution be considered schismatic? Why is it that only the conservative movements are drawing such a Chicken Little response? I am also so very tired of the demonization of The Layman. While self-styled "progressives," in their "loving" and "tolerant" smugness, may look down upon it with the snobbish disdain of the "elite," The Layman is seen as a breath of fresh air by a great many within the denomination. With denominational leaders actively deriding the movements that common folks seek shelter in; with denominational spokespersons rudely denying in writing the authenticity of Confessing Churches' actions; with governing bodies refusing to stand up for traditional beliefs and garnering one embarrassing headline after another; with the denominational structure producing one embarrassing publication after another; and with a denominational hierarchy that seemingly believes that they, the Presbyterians with traditional and orthodox beliefs, are uneducated, unenlightened, schismatic and deluded, a great many folks turn to The Layman for a sense that someone out there in PCUSA-land still stands where they stand. I applaud The Layman for its service, and may God continue to bless them and their efforts. That being said, I think it is the height (or depth, as the case may be) of disrespect to say that the Confessing Churches are dupes and puppets of The Layman or that The Layman is some sort of malignant force intent on manipulating people and events. It seems that the "Great Right-Wing Conspiracy" theory has made it into our denominational hierarchy. Our denominational leaders need to quit sticking their head in the sands of wishful thinking and step up to the plate. They need to quit whining and start delivering. They need to quit "spinning" and start truly addressing the serious issues with conservatives in a serious way. If they do not, they will find themselves presiding over the very cataclysm they most strenuously say they wish to avoid. The sad thing is that they probably will refuse to see their hand in causing it. JP Thornton Pastor Buchanan County, Va. Confessing Churches must talk with dollars October 18, 2001 Reading your article on the PCUSA using ex-moderators to try to dissuade potential Confessing Churches from joining the movement is quite disturbing. It makes me realize more and more that we, as Confessing Churches, need to do more than just say we are Confessing Churches. It is relatively easy to make the statement, " I am a Confessing Church." The difficult part comes in standing behind the statement to show one's commitment. Our church has chosen to divert funds that would normally go to our presbytery to areas of our preference. After reading your article, I am even more pleased that we chose to take this stand. Your article is a classic example of how our own contributions to PCUSA through our presbyteries is being used against us as they fund these ex-moderators to wage war against the Confessing Church Movement. I do not understand how Confessing Churches can continue to send funds to their presbyteries with this latest revelation added to the long list of how the PCUSA is misusing our (God's) money. After attending recent CC meetings, I realize that churches seem very reluctant to discuss this matter of diverting funds normally sent to presbytery. This matter needs to be openly presented and discussed so that Confessing Churches can fully understand how their funds are being spent. If they so choose, they can specify to presbytery funds that they want to go to PCUSA programs they feel inclined to support. The balance can be diverted to support areas of their own choosing. Our church has diverted part of our funds to the Confessing Church Movement to help support the upcoming activities of that movement and to also help fund our church activities in that area. There are so many areas of God's work that can make much better use of our funds than the General Assembly of PCUSA. I would request that The Layman consider publishing an article informing Confessing Churches of their options in diverting funds from our presbyteries and, therefore, the General Assembly. If there are other options that would allow Confessing Churches to show their commitment to standing behind God's Word and this movement, I would like to hear it. The time is rapidly approaching when we will have to make the decision to stand behind our Confessing Church tenets (God's Word) or fall off of the wagon (CC movement). Each church needs to be deciding what their decision will be in this area. Jim Lewis, elder Waynesville First Presbyterian Church Waynesville, N.C. A proposed divide: PC²(USA) or POP(USA)? October 15, 2001 Since receiving October 2001 issue of The Layman and reading further about the widening divide between the left and the right in PCUSA, I've been thinking. The left claims that those striving to hold to traditional values and confessions are being intolerant, and the Confessing Church movement is devisive. This reminds me of Saturday mornings at our house when we have let the kids tumble into bed with us to snuggle. Usually, it isn't long before we hear, "It's not fair!", "There's no room!", "Move over!", as if my wife and I were at fault for our kids' discomfort. Well, whose bed is it anyway, for Pete's sake! My wife and I eventually had to tell our ever expanding (and griping) children that there just isn't enough room for them anymore, and that snuggling days are over. So, it seems inevitable to me that a similar separation is coming to PCUSA. When this happens, here are my suggestions for naming the two resulting groups. The departing left (and let it be very, very clear: they are the ones departing) can call themselves PCPCUSA, for Politically Correct Presbyterian Church, USA. As some of the high tech businesses have done, this could be turned to PC2USA, although, mathematically, (PC)2USA is more accurate. Who knows, a high tech acronym may be a great marketing ploy for a religious group that wants to keep abreast of the times. For the rest of us on the right who choose to remain old fuddy duddies, continuing with our antiquated beliefs, such as "Jesus is Lord," we could remain PCUSA. Or, perhaps, change to PPUSA – Presbyterian People, USA. But I kinda like POPUSA: Plain Old Presbyterians, USA. Larry Cannon Kenmore, Wash. Movement needs to chase away enemy October 9, 2001 Unless the Confessing Church Movement determines from the start to outnumber, outspend, create theological seminaries, colleges, mission agencies, etc., and determine to evangelize the planet, the effort will be self-defeating. First, root out those in the top positions in the Louisville PCUSA office and replace the same with Real Believers in Jesus Christ who have been trained in the Reformed faith as John Calvin and the Reformers. Second, in the meantime, dig in and fight those apostates until they leave the PCUSA. Why give the apostates the victory by leaving? The Southern Baptist Convention did not split, but sought to root out the liberals, and that has worked, and SBC is much stronger with their message. Third, by standing fast, the enemy will flee. The Holy Bible has much to say on standing fast: Ephesians 6. The PCUSA has a tremendous legacy to give up to the apostates, and that is worth fighting and dying, if need be. Lou S. Nowasielski Wilmington, Del. A new denomination? Incredible! October 9, 2001 It is incredible to me that there is actually talk of forming a new denomination out of the Confessing Churches. This is not incredible to me because I think that the Confessing Churches should stay in the PCUSA, but because I cannot really believe that anyone honestly thinks that we need yet another Presbyterian denomination. Without considering the several very small Presbyterian congregations out there, there are four that are solid, relatively strong and committed to being Presbyterian and Reformed. These are the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (founded by churches leaving the PCUSA in 1981), The Presbyterian Church in America (founded by churches leaving the old PCUS in 1973), the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (founded by churches leaving the old UPC in 1930 or so), and the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (founded in the 1700s). Surely, the evangelical Presbyterian churches in the PCUSA could exit and unite with one or another of these denominations. Why do we need to further muddy the waters and further divide the evangelical and Reformed witness in the United States? Doesn't it make sense to show that the Confessing Churches are not schismatic but are agreeing with the three churches that have left the PCUSA already in declaring that that denomination is no longer a true church? It is a dinosaur headed for extinction, as someone recently wrote, and the only thing that keeps the other Reformed bodies in the U.S. from declaring it apostate is the small remnant that still remains. I have to urge those true Christians in the PCUSA who are considering leaving that denomination not to form a new denomination, but to be welcomed into the fellowship of your sister churches who have already left. Rev. Austin Olive Wellington, Colo. Remove '67 Confession September 7, 2001 The objectives, as printed in The Layman, are great and the summary of the Confessing Church Movement, in which you state that you reassert your belief that Jesus Christ is Lord of all, that Scripture is the infallible rule of life and faith and that God's standards for holiness do not change to accommodate a transient culture, is exactly what as an elder in the church I can wholeheartedly support. I am currently attending as a non-member a Presbyterian church that supports the intent of these objectives. But I feel that without the removal of the Confession of 1967 statements about the Bible, the problem is only receiving band-aids. George Hecox Rio Rancho, N.M. 'Escape clause' needed September 7, 2001 I am completely in accord with the Confessing Church Movement. First Presbyterian Church in Menard, Texas, which I serve, signed the covenant as soon as we found out about its stance. It is my belief that the schism that already exists will not be resolved by this movement but that we ought to seek ways of departing from a denomination that has long ago departed from its historical heritage. We ought to negotiate another "escape clause," such as we had at the time of the reunion of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.) and the United Presbyterian Church (USA), but this time allowing any church to move with its property to either the PCA or Evangelical Presbyterian Churches. These denominations are already viable Presbyterian organizations which represent the orthodox stance we hold so dear. Roger. D. Sidener Menard, Texas A surprising discovery September 7, 2001 We all tend to think of the Northeast Synod as that bastion of liberal thought. In looking at the Confessing Church map kept by The Layman, I just assumed that was why the numbers were so low on that part of the map. Imagine my surprise when I pulled up the PCUSA statistical data base and looked at it as to the number of congregations on a state-by-state basis. For instance did you know that 44 percent of the churches in Rhode Island are Confessing Churches – the highest percentage state in the union? It is just that there are only nine PCUSA churches in Rhode Island. The states where more than 10% of the congregations are Confessing Churches are: Rhode Island, 4 of 9 (44%); Mississippi, 20 of 125 (16%); Connecticut, 3 of 20 (15%); Alaska, 5 of 37 (13.5%); Louisiana, 15 of 115 (13%); Pennsylvania, 148 of 1,090 (13%); Delaware, 5 of 37 (13%); California, 69 of 586 (12%); Washington, 26 of 223 (12%); and, with only one Confessing Church congregation, New Hampshire, 1 of 10 (10%). It's certainly not the old 'Southern" church bastion you would expect. As for the six states with no Confessing Churches, those six states have a combined total of of 142 congregations. The states with less than 3% of their congregations "confessing" are New York (720 churches), Nebraska (146), Arkansas (126), and Wisconsin (166). Mimi Jamieson Elder First Presbyterian Church Hendersonville, N.C. A double standard in Biblical interpretation? August 9, 2001 Probably, most of your criticisms come from the pro-homosexual contingency within the Presbyterian Church (USA). This one is, rather, from a Christian perspective. The second point of doctrine stated by the Confessing Church Movement is, "That holy Scripture is the Triune God's revealed Word, the Church's only infallible rule of faith and life." Now this raises a very serious problem, namely the unopposed, even required, ordination of women by your denomination. As I understand it, this practice, plainly forbidden by Scripture – you know the verses, and I know how you skirt them – is not under any question nor under any opposition by the movement. I put it to you that the "arguments" which you set forth to ignore these passages are identical in form to those put forth by the pro-homosexual contingency for their cause. This gives very significant weight to Jack Rogers' claim that your organization "went through the same thing with the role of women ... People believed the Bible taught one thing, and now everybody [including members of your Movement] believes the Bible teaches something else." While you all believe quite incorrectly, Rogers' observation is correct. I put it to you that it is but hypocrisy – and possibly as your opponents claim, bigotry – and that the Confessing Church Movement cannot with integrity claim to believe the principle of an infallible, authoritative Scripture while calling it both fallible and unauthoritative relating to the ordination of women. Vincent R. Skolny Texas should produce more Confessing Churches August 9, 2001 I can't understand the lack of support for the Confessing Church from the state of Texas. I would think that with our conservative roots we would be ready to support this Confessing Church Movement. I wonder whether we are more interested in being politically correct, afraid to step on some toes. We must get back to the Bible and stand firm on the undiluted word of God. Must I remind those that may have forgotten that it is not supposed to be easy. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. I once heard someone say that Satan's best battleground is the one that lies between our ears. It looks like he gaining ground. If we are going to bless one type of sin, then shouldn't we bless all sin? Jesus loved to hang out with sinners, but he did not bless the sin, He always called for repentance. Jesus is watching. Ed Von Ruff First Presbyterian Church Pearland, Texas Confessing Church bandwagon could be a very rough ride August 7, 2001 Stories abound of families and friendships sundered by that fact of individuals finding themselves on opposite sides during the Civil War. In reading the excerpts from the exchanges that took place in Denver, I couldn't help being impressed that a similar fate awaits us in the PCUSA. Many of these people have known, worked with or studied under Jack Rogers, and the sense of personal anguish caused by their theological and ecclesiastical differences was unmistakable. Such may be the case with the rest of us as events and votes unfold over the next several months. Pursuing the peace, unity and purity of the church may cost us dearly, in terms well beyond property and money. We should all be careful in jumping on the Confessing Church Movement bandwagon unless we're ready to take a very rough ride. Dr. Carl Grosse First Presbyterian Church Farmington, Minn. Gays, pluralism threaten peace, purity and unity August 7, 2001 At General Assembly, Moderator Jack Rogers criticized the Confessing Church Movement and considered it a threat to the peace, purity and unity of the PCUSA. Where is the purity in his desire for a "moral equivalent of marriage" between homosexuals and the pluralism in which Christ Jesus is just one of several paths to salvation? Where is the peace when each General Assembly for a number of years has been sidetracked from the Lord's work by the Covenant Network's intense effort to destroy a Christian church? Is the circus called General Assembly peaceful? How can there be unity when there is no possible middle ground between the group on the left seeking to ordain homosexual elders and pastors and the group on the right that correctly sees this as not Biblical? We might as well face up to it: The PCUSA will never meet the needs of the two sides and will fail in its mission to witness effectively to Christ as long as we have this chemically explosive mix. Give the More Light and Covenant churches their property and let them alone or with the Unitarian/Universalists. A split would be a very positive step for the PCUSA. Evangelicals in the Coalition movement are moving in the right direction. As for Art Seamen, he is correct; some of the questions and comments in Denver were discourteous to the moderator, but Dr. Rogers' views leave little room for respect or courtesy. He is moderator in name only and it is ludicrous to call himself the "confessing moderator." May God open his eyes to the truth. Bill Arthur Tucson, Ariz. Rogers' comments were disappointing August 7, 2001 I was glad to read of the questions put to Moderator Rogers and I am glad that people were able to question and rebuke the Moderator in a loving spirit. I was disappointed in Moderator Rogers for his comments about the Confessing Church Movement. It appears that he seeks to make an enemy out of The Layman and, by association, those who might read and support it. Schism may result from the debate over the Lordship of Jesus Christ, authority of Scripture and striving to live in holiness. If so, may we part in peace when that time comes. Three confessions which are the focus of the Confessing Church Movement are not of their own nature schismatic. They can be unifying as they call us to worship and live in closer fellowship with Christ and with each other. Let us pray and work together to see what God will bring about among us. David Kesterson Raleigh, N.C. Even the rocks will cry out against apostasy August 7, 2001 Thank you for publishing the comments regarding Moderator Jack Rogers and comments about the Confessing Church. I am sorry that Art Seaman of Novato, Calif., is offended that folks confronted the moderator. Mr. Rogers apparently allowed himself to carry the banner in the assault on God's Christ and his Word. He should expect that God's people will not sit quietly while Jack leads his church astray. If God's people "play nice" and keep their silence, the rocks will cry out. Thank God for people at the Presbyterian Coalition "conversation" that stood up in Mr. Rogers face and confronted him on his ungodly stands. I pray that God will show Jack how dangerous his position is to his and countless other souls. I am most deeply appreciative of ordained ministers of the Word who have come out strongly against this heresy in the church. While I appreciate my fellow laymen, I know that we can be dismissed as uninformed and uneducated. We laymen have been like sheep whose fold is under wolf attack and have been praying that our shepherds would arise and take control. The election of Rogers has caused some pastors to stand up, use their educational and spiritual weapons and take authoritative and accurate aim at the apostasy that is growing in the church. Jim Logan McHenry, Md. Remarks by moderator were deeply offending August 7, 2001 I want to thank you for reporting this event [the Presbyterian Coalition's "conversation" with Moderator Jack B. Rogers] for all of those who could not attend. My husband was going through cancer surgery and treatments. I was a minister commissioner to the 213th General Assembly and I went expecting a glorious time and found myself a "stranger in my own church." My husband and I are a clergy couple who are both life-long Presbyterians. What I saw and heard simply was not Presbyterian; it was not even Christian in many cases. I was deeply offended by remarks made by the moderator about the Confessing Church Movement. My own church session voted to join the movement upon my return and communication of the horrible actions of the assembly. I would have never expected that of a moderate church with evangelical but moderate pastors. We are loyal Presbyterians, but we want it known that this does not represent us. We feel we are holding on to the vast traditions and history of Scripture and our confessions. The moderator needs to realize that evangelical means taking the Bible to heart. It certainly means taking Jesus Christ as the way to salvation to every person. If he does not stand for that, he is not evangelical in any way. I pray that God will use this time as he did Joseph's life long ago, that what was done for evil, God will use for good. I intend to be part of that process. I am also concerned about the great lie that says that those of us who want Amendment B to stand are bigots and unchristian. We have always ordained sinful people in this church, but we have never said that sin was not sin. Repentance is the real issue here. I have a friend who was a gay pastor who was loved and effective in his ministry until the gay community exposed him to force him to be part of the platform. We cannot ordain people who want us to say anything goes just to soothe their consciences. This does not mean they are not loved and it does not mean that they cannot be ordained if they repent and attempt to live a righteous life. We also had the experience in one of our calls of following as the next pastors a clergy sexual misconduct case that tore our church in many ways. I believe that even more damaging to our church today is the mentality that clergy can do anything they want and it won't effect their churches. I have seen the damage personally. Katie Hopper Minister Commissioner, 213th General Assembly First Presbyterian Church Rogers, Ark. More Light is OK and 'Confessing' is schismatic? August 7, 2001 Let me see if I have this straight ... for several years now, some churches have declared themselves to be "More Light" churches, dedicated to overturning our constitution and they are seemingly welcome to do so, no one calls them schismatic. Now this year some churches have declared themselves to be "Confessing" churches, dedicated to upholding our constitution, and we are schismatics. Would someone please explain this to me? Mark Wright Trinity Presbyterian Church Clarinda, Iowa 'Spiritually dead' causing drift by denomination August 7, 2001 As I watch our General Assembly drift farther into apostasy, I am reminded of the The Shining, a movie about a haunted mountain resort. The wife goes through most of the movie unaware of the numerous ghostly spirits that inhabit the place. At the end, when her husband has gone completely off the deep end she goes down to the ballroom and for the first time sees the dead and decaying bodies sitting around listening to a ghostly speaker at the podium. I have come to the conclusion that our denomination is inhabited by a lot of spiritually dead. I can only pray that it is not too late for the living to start doing something to reclaim our denomination for Christ. The thought has caused me to write a letter to my session encouraging them to become part of the Confessing Church Movement. John Merkel Beaverton, Ore. |
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