 Responses to Miami Church issue The source of twisted theology? August 21, 2000 Purpose Driven Presbyterians? I'm not sure why, but I remain concerned about this situation in Miami. It always concerned me that this was a minister who was required by his presbytery to be examined by a doctor, but he refused. He renounced the Presbyterian Church. Now he has created a ministry called Purpose Driven Presbyterians. Why would a man who has renounced Presbyterianism give the impression that he is starting a Presbyterian ministry? He seems to be using this ministry to generate funds by selling copies of the Purpose Driven Presbyterians. I think it might be of interest to check out his new web page – www.pdpresbyterians.org Bill Peterson PCUSA not traditionally a charismatic church August 8, 2000 I first read about the issue of Michael Girolimon and the ministry he is trying to build in The Layman sometime ago. Now I hear about his renunciation of our denominational jurisdiction. I read the recent article about presbytery taking over, and the responses to this situation. It seems to me that all parties who are involved in this situation have a blame to share. The pastor, the congregation, the presbytery, and all those who are silently and secretly plotting. One reminder to all of us as pastors and members that we are not traditionally a charismatic church, and we are certainly not a part of the Assemblies of God. My husband's parents are members of an Assembly of God church in Tennessee, and we often worship with them when we visit them. As much as I appreciate the liveliness, the many positives, the strong emphasis on evangelism, and the manifestation of gifts of the Spirit, I know that their doctrine and theology are not Reformed. The pastor has the ultimate power in the decision-making process. Accountability to a governing body is zero. Each church is independent in the way it exercises its theology and worship. And evangelism is "winning souls to Christ". We don't win anything; we just respond to God's gracious call in Jesus Christ. And yes, the Book of Order states that "manifestations of the Spirit in worship edify the whole church" (W-3.1002b), and "one may pray in tongues as a personal and private discipline" (W-5.4001). There is a great report on this very subject done by the 182nd General Assembly on the work of the Holy Spirit which deals with the gifts of the Spirit. In it there are guidelines for both people who speak in tongues and who do not. PCUSA does not forbid the manifestations of the gifts, and there are certainly many other gifts than speaking in tongues. But I think something needs to be said about order. I have witnessed many times how speaking in tongues, holy laughter and dancing, being slain in the spirit, and other "charismatic expressions" disturb worship, and almost place a feeling of guilt or unworthiness on those who have a different experience in the Assembly of God church we visited. And yes, maybe, my experience is limited, but I have also been a speaker at Women's Aglow meetings which the requirement is to speak in tongues as the evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was invited as a non-baptized in the Spirit guest because I converted from Islam, and they were praying for Muslims. I am truly saddened to see how our church is divided, not only in issues on evangelism or the gifts of the spirit, but about other matters. There is meanness in the way we live our lives as Presbyterians. I have not been a life-long Presbyterian, but I have made a promise to be faithful to my church. Yes, I have many things I don't agree with higher governing body levels, but I think there is something to be said about the way we defy our constitution. We are not going to gain members by right evangelism versus wrong evangelism. I am sure Pastor Girolimon's new church will grow. Pentecostalism is a growing movement. Yet, there are churches which are growing despite the fact that they are still orderly, and liturgical in their worship and Reformed in their theology. And I believe the reason is the deep rooted spirituality which takes its power from the Holy Spirit. I think as Presbyterians we have forgotten our spirituality which is rooted in the Scripture. I have read the Purpose Driven Church and many others like it. Good ideas, and most of them work. Yet, I am convinced that the Presbyterian Church will not grow until we discover our true spirituality rooted in the Reformed tradition. I ask all of us a question once was asked to me by a Benedictine sister, "what is Reformed spirituality, describe it to me?" What is it? And how do we practice it as pastors and congregations? Instead of labeling each other conservative or liberal, evangelical or not, spirit-filled or not, is it not time to go deeper and exercise the disciplines of spiritual formation? How many of us really know the Book of Order or the Confessions? Well, I should ask, how many of us really know the Scripture? I do not want to sound critical, but the people are hungry for the words of God. And I believe God has poured out the Holy Spirit upon us: God still calls, still blesses, still empowers us to proclaim the good news. The expressions might be different, but who is to say God is not enjoying our worship, or our worship is less worthy of God because we do not have a band in service or speak in tongues. As the Pentecostals would say, "Let us love the LORD!" and the rest will follow. If my words have offended anyone, I ask your forgiveness. Thank you. Rev. Banu Moore Westminster Presbyterian Church Jamestown, NY Reader feels Lay Committee on wrong track August 8, 2000 I have read with great interest the issues of the First Church in Miami, a congregation with which I have a fairly close acquaintance. I have been in presbytery meetings where issues related to this church have arisen, and served on presbytery committees where some of the issues now receiving publicity were addressed. I am a long time supporter of the Lay Committee and a regular attendee at the PLC National Conference. You do a great job, and I continue to support and promote the work of the Lay Committee. Very rarely do I disagree with the positions taken by the Lay Committee on any issue. However, in the case of the First Church in Miami, I feel the Lay Committee is on the wrong track. I firmly support the authority of Scripture, Biblical preaching, and our confessional standards (especially Westminster, to which I took my ordination vows as an elder in the PCUS); and I hope these lead to church growth, but they do not always. The situation here is not whether the church be made to grow, but whether adherence to our Presbyterian standards (including our Confessions) is to be taken seriously. Personally, I do not feel there is any desire on the part of the presbytery to take over the church for its financial value (the presbytery recently closed and sold the First Church of Coral Gables, and has a substantial fund resulting from that sale), and most in the presbytery would like to see the church survive. The Layman articles did not address the earlier events in First Church, including the forced expulsion of several institutions using the property, or the treatment of elders who were serving on the session at the time Pastor Girolimon was called. The action of the presbytery may seem heavy-handed, but there was also some rather heavy handed action on the part of the pastor and session before any presbytery intervention took place. The Layman has traditionally stood for orderly adherence to Presbyterian standards, rather than rash action leading to withdrawal from the denomination. I respect the interest of The Layman in this affair (surely we need a type of media watchdog to alert us to what the PCUSA is doing), but I regretfully feel that in this case The Layman had considerably less than the whole story. John McGlamery Elder First Presbyterian Church Miami Springs, FL Pastor of Miami church treated shabbily August 3, 2000 It was so wonderful to read of Michael Girolimon assuming the position of pastor of First Presbyterian of Miami. I visited that church several times when I was in Miami over the past decades but always found it sad, even during the time when the delightful Charlie Shedd was serving as interim. The physical setting of the church, its prime location and grounds are so favorable, and the need is so great for a living witness in that area, it's been tragic to find it so pitiable. The initial reports on Pastor Girolimon were so auspicious, and reminded me of the high hopes that Charlie Shedd entered with and spoke of, again so sadly dashed. No matter how the history of this sad saga is revised, how shifty the blame gets, the truth remains, again, a pastor was treated shabbily, and by somebody underneath who uses others for the dirty work while remaining hidden, in the dark. The Miami situation brought to mind the book Sheep in Wolves' Clothing: How Unseen Need Destroys Friendship and Community and What to Do about It by Valerie J. McIntyre of Pastoral Care Ministries out of Wheaton, Ill. It seems so applicable. The book contains information that proved helpful to gaining insight into a crippling betrayal in my own life, and has contributed to deepening forgiveness and compassion for the perpetrator. May this excerpt be for the edification of the church:
Kerry McCauley Naples, FL Critics should read Warren's book first August 3, 2000 It is obvious that Mr. Woodward has not done his homework on Rick Warren and The Purpose Driven Church model. Please read the book before criticizing it. When reaching the lost for Christ and helping them to become mature Christians becomes a problem, guess who has the problem...? God's blessings to Pastor Girolimon. What a shame... Another purpose-driven pastor, Dr. Bryant Harris Mars Hill Presbyterian Church Acworth, Ga. Who'll turn out the lights for the PCUSA? Let's see if I have this right. The General Assembly reports that membership has taken a larger decline than in the past few years. A church that at one time was ready to close its doors starts to impact its community and show signs of healthy growth. A presbytery committee tells the pastor that the "Five Great Ends of the Church" are more important that the "Great Commission." (I always thought the Great Commission came first). The pastor is forced to choose between denominational loyalty and loyalty to his call. Now we have a church that will probably close its doors and a pastor that will grow a new church, but it will not be Presbyterian. And more controversy in the denomination. Is it any wonder that people are rushing to join our church? Looks like everything is normal with the Presbyterians, and would the last Presbyterian turn out the lights in 25 years, because that's all the longer we've got! Daniel Sutherin Schererville, IN Church needs Jesus more than presbytery Keeping up with what's happening in Miami, I keep being reminded of the Gospel of John chapter 15. The church in Miami was reported to have a long history of decline. "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away." It also reported growth as the result of Pastor Girolimon's part in making the church "pertinent" and sensitive to the "fields" in its own back yard! "And every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit." "I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser." Seems to me the Father is at work in Miami's First Presb. Finally, the last phrase of v. 5 in John 15 – "Without me you can do nothing." Seems as though they are with our Lord in a way unlike before when the church was hemorrhaging and not in touch with its "back yard" that is surely "white unto harvest." I think the church might do without the presbytery, but our Lord Jesus Christ said, "Without me you can do nothing." Notwithstanding, the presbytery has its rightful place, and serves a vital function, yet I pray; Oh Branch, stay connected to the True Vine! Amen Glenn Frank Elder, First Presbyterian Church Antlers, OK Reformed v. purpose-driven I was delighted to see the article about Mark Dever and church reform. Imagine, a Baptist reminding us what it means to be Presbyterian and Reformed. The article "Healthy Congregations; Prune Membership, Disciple Members" should be required reading for all those who wrote in to defend Rev. Girolimon and to worship at the altar of The Purpose Driven Church. Robert E. Woodward New Carrollton, MD 'Maybe God has something to say to the Church' Speaking in tongues violates our constitution? Since when? Maybe God has something to say to the Church! Prayers for the pastor, and may the Lord continue to multiply his work. Rev. Ed Piper Mt. Laguna Chapel Mt. Laguna, CA Deviation from the traditional is not sin Mr. Robert Woodward's letter seems to confuse deviation from traditional Presbyterianism with sin. This is, in my opinion, a major failing of the Presbyterian Church. I believe the PCUSA has lost its perspective on what is important and what is not, and I think Mr. Woodward's letter reflects that. What is important is recognizing that people who don't know Jesus Christ as their savior are destined for hell. The Bible does not provide any statement of punishment for failure to read a sufficient number of creeds and confessions in any given month. Pastor Girolimon took a church that was, for all intents and purposes, extinct and used it for the purpose God intended. From what I read, Pastor Girolimon fulfilled his Biblical imperative to "go into the world, preaching the Gospel, making disciples of all men (women and children)." As a reward for his success, he is required to have a psychological evaluation and had the locks changed on the church. Instead of saying "Praise the Lord--Rick Warren and Pastor Girolimon just found another lost sheep," the presbytery has cynically attacked their motives as self-aggrandizement and not Presbyterian enough. How pathetic! Is the rigid adherence to traditional Presbyterianism more important than using the best possible methods to win souls for Christ? Sadly, it seems so. We are so focused as a denomination on social issues that we've ignored the important issue--saving the lost. Personal worship becomes more important than witness and evangelism. Does the Great Commission command us to "Go ye into all the world, maintaining the finest traditions of the Presbyterian style of worship?" I don't think so. Really, the psychological testing stuff was over the top. I don't know Pastor Girolimon, but it is my impression that he is Biblically grounded enough to forgive his tormentors. I will pray for his continued success in his new church. For the members of the Tropical Florida Presbytery, I pray that they discover the truth about what is really important about the Great Commission. Gary Houseman Ashburn, VA Don't condemn Christians in Miami Perhaps it is Robert Woodward who should read the Bible more thoroughly. The Apostle Paul said, "Do not forbid to speak in tongues...." I am one who thinks those who speak in tongues should use this gift at home but, at the same time, I do not think anyone has any right to look down on those who do speak in tongues. The Christians in Miami are sincere and do not deserve their presbytery's condemnation based on the way they choose to worship God. Worse things are being tolerated by PCUSA, including the "wonderful" unity document signed by a majority of presbyteries uniting PCUSA with heaven only knows how many other denominations who ordain homosexuals, etc. Glenda L. Smith Deacon Reems Creek PCUSA Miami's three-ring circus Ring 1: The bizarre antics of a loose cannon on Bricknell Avenue in Miami. This pastor calls himself a Presbyterian but apparently still belongs in the fringe Assembly of God from whence he came. If indeed he intends to pull his (it's not really his you know) congregation out of the PCUSA to become The Church of What's Happening Now, with no oversight, no creeds except for what pops into his head on any given Sunday, then he and the congregation need to do the honorable thing and vacate the premises including the manse. They belong to the presbytery. Ring 2: The Presbytery of Tropical Florida. In an attempt to exercise the authority and enforce the discipline that is required of them they have made a royal mess of things. Ring 3: You letter writers who defend the pastor, apparently solely on the basis that he is attracting members. Church growth at any price, even truth, seems to be the motto. How, too, can they defend the ravings and marketing tactics of such church growth gurus as Rick Warren? They need to go back and read their confessions, their Calvin, Hodge and Warfield. Above all they need to read God's Word, get on their knees and repent. Presbyterians are (or should be) people of the Word. We believe in the Word preached. Preached in a way that demonstrates the sinfulness of man and salvation through Jesus Christ who is all sufficient. We believe in the visible Word as demonstrated through the proper arbitration of the sacraments. And we believe in the Word lived through the proper administration of discipline. Discipline does not permit me, as an elder, to spy on Susanna in her bath, but I am entitled to oversee what she is teaching her children, what is being taught in her Sunday School, her small group, and what is being preached from the pulpit of her church. These three, Word, sacrament, and discipline are the marks of the true church yet they have been absent from the discussion either in the articles or in the letters I've read on your web site. As Reformed believers we believe (or should) that if we strive to faithfully adhere to the ordinary (as in ordained) means, if we faithfully plant and water, then God will honor that and give the growth. To do anything else, whether it be borrowing the world's tactics to bring about short term church growth, or relying on magic (going through the church building and praying over the pews) betrays our sinfulness and lack of trust in our Lord. Robert E. Woodward New Carrollton, MD Is there a pattern of abuse toward clergy? Are the recent events at First Presbyterian Church in Miami, Fla., part of a growing pattern of abuse toward clergy by the committee on ministry and the presbytery? The more I listen to my colleagues in ministry, the more I am fearful that committees on ministry and other presbytery leaders are quick to jump on the "blame-the-pastor" bandwagon. In the old days, Presbyterian clergy could sleep well at night knowing that the presbytery was a "good shepherd" rather than a "hired hand" (John 10). I grew up believing that presbytery executives and the committee on ministry served as a "pastor to pastors." One of the marks that used to distinguish the Presbyterian Church from other denominations was that clergy were free, and protected, to preach the gospel, to call people to faith, and to serve God as led by the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, we have long lost this distinguishing mark of caring for our pastors and supporting them in ministry. When the shepherd lives in fear the only food the sheep will have to eat is milk toast. Obviously, this is not what Paul had in mind when he told Timothy, "God did not give you a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love, and self-control." (2 Timothy 1:6) Everyday, as I pray for our great church, I grieve for how we no longer care for our clergy. Rev Linn W. Rus Howard Peters Creek United Presbyterian Church 250 Brookwood Road Venetia, PA Presbytery's actions are appalling After having read the article from the Layman, "Presbytery assumes governance of First Presbyterian in Miami," I am appalled at the lack of witness to the world that the Presbyterian Church USA is showing by its response to Pastor Girolimon's desire to evangelize his community. I have read most of the previous articles concerning the issues surrounding Pastor Girolimon, and I am stunned that the presbytery does not make the issues open items. Do they have something to hide? Are things in the body of Christ done under the cloak of darkness? I don't see such hiddenness as part of the gospel. Assuming control of another man's church is beyond anything I have ever heard. Does the presbytery have so little trust in their ordained minister that they must take the action of freezing church assets, changing locks on doors, and charging the man rent? What would Christ do in their stead? Would He take such actions? I shake my head at the actions of the presbytery. Floyd Talbot San Jose, CA Coverage of Miami Church, pastor was unbalanced As a longtime reader and defender of The Presbyterian Layman, and as an evangelical who is a friend and supporter of both Michael Girolimon and Ken Harper, I find your reporting of the situation in the Presbytery of Tropical Florida disturbing and incredibly imbalanced. You have vilified Ken Harper and the Presbytery (which has consistently upheld Biblical standards when voting for PCUSA constitutional amendments). Also, you have completely misrepresented many facts and decisions. I, personally, do not think that Michael received a fair shake in our Presbytery. It was, however, far more fair than the one you have given to the Presbytery of Tropical Florida and Ken Harper. Whereas I appreciate, in general, your ministry, this time you have grossly erred in the reporting this situation. Kirk McCormick Senior Pastor First Presbyterian Church Boca Raton, FL Mentor to Michael Girolimon Criticized book has good insights Along with many others in our denomination, I have profited greatly from the insights contained in Rick Warren's Purpose-Driven Church. The book is not overtly charismatic, and the five main purposes correspond easily with Presbyterian doctrine. First Presbyterian Church, Lake Jackson, TX, has adopted some of Warren's methodology and has found its focus tremendously enhanced as a result. It would be interesting to hear how many of Warren's critics have actually read the book, or whether they are just indulging in ecclesiastical sour grapes. Presbyterians do tend to look down their noses at those who are concerned with something so worldly as numerical growth. If there is a problem with the book, it's that Rick tends to assume that pastors have a far larger say in the choice and appointment of elders and leaders than is usually the case in the PCUSA. This is because he gives greater emphasis to the discernment of spiritual gifts and the need to match ministry with giftedness. It might be argued that one of our weaknesses has been the chronic lack of discernment in some of our congregations that has led to the continued election of those who have no business being elders. But even if one disagrees with this particular emphasis, there is still an enormous amount of sanctified common sense in the book, and in the related web site www.pastors.com. Recently, while at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, I was asked to read some unadulterated nonsense that certainly did not accord with the Great Ends of the Church. A cursory glance at other church growth books, such as some of those published by the Alban Institute, reveals numerous positions taken in direct opposition to the tenets of historic orthodox Presbyterianism. For example, Loren Mead's influential series of little books, much beloved by presbytery executives, which began with The Once and Future Church shows distinct tendencies towards universalism and is far more 'inclusive' than our constitution allows. Has anyone complained about Mead's incompatibility with Presbyterianism? Let's be honest. From the outside, the situation at First, Miami looks far more like politics than anything else. If the pastor had been content to act as chaplain to a dying cause he could have stayed until the bitter end, and probably been applauded by the presbytery for his faithful ministry. Instead, he took the Great Commission seriously and is now out of the denomination. I wonder, when He comes again, whom shall Christ reward as His truly faithful servant? Alan Trafford Senior pastor First Presbyterian Church Lake Jackson, TX Moving services held at Miami church As a visitor, I worshiped this morning [July 23] at First Presbyterian Church of Miami. We heard the Gospel proclaimed. We heard the claims of Christ, and the mission of the Church, reaffirmed. We heard a number of persons, of various races and ethinic backgrounds -- both member and visitor -- stand to testify of their love for Christ, and their appreciation for this congregation. And we shared in a wholehearted standing ovation for presbytery representative's report of recent actions and vision for the congregation's future. I am sure you will be receiving further information. I trust that you will share such with your readers, for a fairer and more balanced report. John T. McCrea Miami Tongues compatible with Presbyterian belief As I read the article on the Miami Church issue, I read with apprehension the insinuation that speaking in tongues was somehow a crime in this denomination, but I was alarmed by the letter from Logan Anderson who claimed that speaking in tongues is not a Presbyterian belief and is frowned upon by the Book of Order. Where in the Book of Order does it say that the use of tongues is frowned upon? Where in the Book of Confessions is it frowned upon? Where in the Bible is it frowned upon? What was Paul thinking when he approved of this kind of activity? There are charismatic Presbyterian congregations in the PCUSA, charismatic members of the PCUSA, and many pastors in the PCUSA who themselves speak in tongues, and all of whom I know would be very conservative, In fact, I have never met a liberal who speaks in tongues, only evangelicals. Rev. Peter Loughman San Pedro Presbyterian San Antonio, TX Church growth book, Great Ends: No conflict A figure in Tropical Florida Presbytery is quoted as saying that there is conflict between the six Great Ends of the PCUSA and Rick Warren's book, Purpose-Driven Church. On page 125 of the paperback version of that book is a chart that shows five possible foci for churches. (For Warren, an ideal church would combine all five of these foci.) Some time back, I made a chart which shows that each of the five corresponds fairly readily to one of the six great ends of the PCUSA. Here are Warren's foci from page 125 and the corresponding PCUSA Great End in parentheses:
Winfield Casey Jones, D.Min Pastor, First Presbyterian Pearland, Texas 'Exclusiveness' rules at presbytery level In response to the Miami Church series of articles, I am reminded of how "inclusiveness" is trumpeted by our leaders in Louisville as the savior of our denomination and this sad episode demonstrates how exclusiveness rules our denomination on the presbytery level. God help us! Rev. Terry Blevins Halifax and Berry Hill Presbyterian Churches Halifax, VA Speaking in tongues is not Presbyterian I was ordained as an elder in the Presbyterian church more than a dozen years ago and currently am a member of one of the stalwarts in the conservative camp in PCUSA. I am not as offended by the Miami First controversy as others are, and here's why. In the most recent article on The Layman's web site about the actions of the presbytery, there were just a couple of lines about speaking in tongues and the like. We as Presbyterians do not believe in this phenomena -- the Word shall be proclaimed so all can understand it. The church went through this near-schism more than 30 years ago ... we don't need it again. If the minister of the church was proclaiming doctrines that the Book of Order and Presbyterianism traditionally frowns upon, then the presbytery was well within its powers to exercise oversight of the church and minister. Just as I have said that the liberal clergy and congregations in PCUSA should become Unitarians where they'd be more comfortable, the charismatic conservatives perhaps should consider Pentecostalism. Logan Anderson Lynchburg, VA Letters to presbytery encouraged I encourage others in my presbytery (Tropical Florida) to write the presbytery about their concerns for this church. 3400 NE First Avenue Pompano Beach, FL 33064 Phone: 954 785-2220 E-mail: center@tfpby.org I sent my note to the Attention of the Committee on Ministry. Mary Minnich Gardens Presbyterian Church System does work sometimes I think it is important for me to say that in very difficult circumstances, I found my Presbytery to be both supportive and care-filled in their dealings with me and with a confusing situation in which our congregation found itself. Although I have often been a critic of our system, I found myself the recipient of much unexpected grace and wise counsel from presbytery officials. Whatever might be the case in Tropical Florida, I believe we need to remember that synods and councils do err, but so do individuals. I would simply say that our system does in fact sometimes (maybe even often) work reasonably well. I would pray that, whatever deficiencies might take place in specific cases, they would be correctable in the way the whole body seeks to clarify and restore one part. James R. Tony What's the Great Commission all about? I am truly saddened at the problems facing the former pastor at Miami First. I do not know where this denomination is going. PCUSA keeps losing members, and considers itself a success if it didn't lose as many this year as last! Is this what the Great Commission is all about? I always thought the main mission is about saving souls, but it seems like many particular Presbyterian churches are nothing more than social clubs with a very thin veneer of religion slapped on the side. Chris Edwards Long Valley Presbyterian Church Miami First one of three types of congregations For some time I have been following the events at First Presbyterian Church in Miami. I have spoken with the pastor, Michael Girolomon. The events at his church constitute a microcosm of that which is occurring in our denomination. I believe the denomination consists, broadly speaking, of three primary, but not equal in any shape or form, groups. A small but vocal minority are essentially post-Christian in their theology. They are also anarchistically inclined. This is evident from their regard for our constitution. Second, we have a large body of congregations that may loosely be called, and consider themselves, "conservative." One challenge for this group is how to make the essential tenets of our faith experiential. They will affirm the historical truths of Scripture; yet, to this group, Scriptural truth is no more than merely "historical." Finally, we have a growing, in every sense of the word, number of congregations that challenge and encourage each other to "walk with Jesus." We should all asks ourselves and each other, "Are you walking with Jesus?" Not infrequently will you find with people so busy in the church that they have no walk with Jesus. That may well in part explain the challenges First Church in Miami is facing. My session and I have pledged to pray for Pastor Michael and his people. Rev. Jerry Voss Millbrook Presbyterian Church Fresno, CA Miami church is being treated wrong What is happening at the First Presbyterian Church in Miami is wrong, wrong, wrong. My prayers go out to the session and to Michael Girolomon. Why is it that there are so many people who are willing to kill the church for the sake of personal pride and political agendas? However, I take comfort in the fact that no one can kill the Spirit of God which is moving through this brave and faithful congregation. John Hinkle Jr. Hiram, GA 'Purpose-Driven Church' a catalyst for renewal It's been a long time since I've heard something as ridiculous as parts of Rick Warren's book The Purpose-Driven Church being "... at odds with the Great Ends of the Church." as was stated in Ken Harper's comments to The Layman. Every PCUSA pastor and congregation could benefit from this book. I've seen it be a catalyst for more intentional, focused ministry in my former church, and it will soon be read by the session and staff here in Dallas as a sparkplug for renewal in my new congregation. Many PCUSA churches and pastors have never taken the time, and sometimes painful effort, to examine why they even exist. Warren's book will help facilitate that process ... and maybe help put wheels on the Great Ends of the Church instead of that just being nice theological jargon. Ron Scates Senior pastor Highland Park Presbyterian Church Dallas, TX Presbytery's tactics criticized by elder [Re: story about First Presbyterian Church in Miami] Apparently the Gestapo is alive and well. Bob Snelling Elder First Presbyterian Church Douglasville, GA Action of presbytery is called appalling I am apalled at the action of the Presbytery of Tropical Florida. I wish I knew how to show my support and outrage. I have been involved in church revitalization/redevelopment efforts all of my 15 years as a PCUSA minister. It is difficult enough work even with the full support and understanding of your presbytery. Unbelievable courage of this pastor! I will agree with the observation that evangelicals, those with "different church backgrounds", and those who offer Christ for personal salvation in urgent or passionate ways seem to be automatically suspect in our denomination ... for the most part. The PCUSA is in deep trouble. We are all in deep trouble if this kind of harassment is allowed to stand ... and evidently it will. I pray for the success of this courageous pastor's mission with/to the spiritually hungry of downtown Miami. Thank you for keeping us abreast of the latest in this important and revealing situation. Dan McMillan Pastor Murray Hill Presbyterian Church Jacksonville, FL Isn't the Church supposed to preach the Gospel? I must be confused. I thought that the role of the Christian Church was to preach the Gospel and convert people to Christ. I don't think that the Book of Order disagrees with that. What is going on in our denomination? When is our church going to have the backbone to get back to the task of being God's representatives here on earth? Bill Arthur Tucson, AZ |
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