Thursday, December 18th, 2014
The Layman Online > Carmen's Writings > Responding with the Gospel to ‘Same Love’ by Macklemore

Responding with the Gospel to ‘Same Love’ by Macklemore

Macklemore, a hip-hop artist from Seattle, recently produced a powerful music video called “Same Love,” about a gay man’s journey from birth-to-death.

The video builds an argument against the conviction that homosexuality is a sin by showcasing the beauty of common grace (friendship, family, joy, food, companionship, commitment). The quality of the video merits the nearly five million views the video achieved in its first two weeks. Music, lyrics and videography all unite to tell a moving narrative of a man and the loves of his life.

As you watch, you will be moved. The video is designed to do just that. But we are more than our emotions and the Word of God is a more serious matter than Macklemore communicates.

After watching the video, one is left with the impression that only an ignorant person who “still fears what we don’t know” would forget that “God loves all His children” and condemn homosexuality as a sin.

Macklemore belittles Scripture: “we paraphrase a book written 3,500 years ago.”

In this one simple line, he dismisses the entire corpus of Christian teaching on sexuality.

The “we paraphrase” leads the listener to understand that all this debate is merely a matter of hermeneutics – and “right-wing conservatives” interpret Scripture wrong.

The line, “a book written 3,500 years ago” provides a contemporary example of what C. S. Lewis called “chronological snobbery” – the belief that ancient thoughts are suspect and probably wrong because they are … ancient.

The statement that the Bible was written 3,500 years ago also reveals that Macklemore does not know the timeline associated with the things he condemns. The New Testament, where strong condemnation of homosexual practice appears, was written less than 2,000 years ago.

Before Macklemore can condemn those who believe in the God revealed in the Bible by asserting that “God loves all His children,” one must ask that the deeper question be answered: “Do you, in fact, believe in the God revealed in the Bible?  Or are you appealing to another god?”

Does the self-revealed God of the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments love all His children? Yes. The same sovereign Lord who created all things from nothing and established and blessed monogamous heterosexuality within the bounds of marriage, also bled and died on the cross to redeem sinners who transgress those sexual standards in countless ways. That is to say, the real God really loves all His children so much that He really died a real death to set them free from sin. He also really rose from the dead to set them free from death itself.  And, it is God alone who is in a position to determine what sin is, since He alone is holy.

Macklemore beats out the lyrics:

The right wing conservatives think it’s a decision
And you can be cured with some treatment and religion
Man-made rewiring of a predisposition
Playing god, aw nah here we go

Does this accurately represent the fullness of what we say the Bible teaches about sexuality? How would you respond to those lines? Do we make false statements about the nature of sexual sin, taking lightly or dismissing altogether the very real presence of sexual desires that lead to temptation and sin in many forms? Can addiction to pornography or lust or homosexuality be cured by Christ? What does that even mean – “to be cured?”

The Gospel of Jesus Christ leads anyone who calls Jesus “Lord” to turn away from all sexual acts prohibited by God’s Word because God has communicated that they are contrary to what He knows is best for us – as individuals, in relationship with one another and in relationship to Him. Although the desire and temptation for sexual acts may lurk in the shadows of the one who commits their life to Christ, they are no longer enslaved to committing the sin or even enjoying the thoughts of the sin. Instead, the very thought becomes repugnant as it is contrary to mind of Christ being actively cultivated in the one who believes.

The redeemed mind is not set on pursuing and satisfying the insatiable desires of the flesh. The redeemed mind is set on “whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable” (Philippians 4:8). And it is God who determines what is true, noble, right, pure, lovely and admirable, not we, ourselves.  Why? Because God alone is holy and in a position to set the parameters of what is good and what is not.

We know that our old self was crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. (Romans 6:6 ESV)

The Gospel of Jesus stands against the “I can’t change” lyrics of Macklemore’s chorus:

And I can’t change
Even if I tried
Even if I wanted to
And I can’t change
Even if I tried
Even if I wanted to
My love, my love, my love
She keeps me warm.

What is impossible for us (spiritual transformation) is possible with God. Idolatry is idolatry. The same God who can change the heart of a money-lover into a God-lover (Matthew 19:26), can change the heart of anyone who is willing to be changed. To deny that is to deny that God is sovereign.

God is God! If He made you, He can change you. When God moves, there is no fist strong enough to continue clinging to lesser loves.

Even the personification in the song of “my love, my love, my love” as a female presence that keeps the singer warm, betrays a worldview that elevates and celebrates the gratification of the physical flesh over the spiritual presence of a holy God.

The change that Macklemore says is impossible is precisely what he’s advocating. He wants heart change, just not for those who are held captive by a lifestyle that is contrary to the revealed will of God. He wants the heart change of those who, in his view, stand in the way not only of the legalization of same-sex marriage, but the heart change that would exchange the truth of God for lies.

The lyrics acknowledge that same-sex marriage recognition is only the start.

And a certificate on paper
Isn’t gonna solve it all
But it’s a damn good place to start.

Ask yourself, what comes the day after same-sex marriage receives legal recognition throughout the nation?  How will those who continue to uphold Biblical sexual standards be perceived? Ideas have consequences – including that revealed truth that God does not change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. God’s holiness does not change. God’s ideas about right and wrong do not change.  What is popular or even legal is a moving target, God is not.

All humanity stands on level ground at the foot of the cross to receive the grace of pardon from sin and sexual brokenness – heterosexual or homosexual. Biblically faithful pastors and Christians must never say to a heterosexual adulterer, a teen-consuming porn, or a homosexual in a decades-long monogamous relationship: “You can’t change – even if you tried – even if you wanted to!”

The Apostle Paul knew something about heart change. He hated Christians and he loved works-righteousness (Philippians 3). Then, everything changed. The Gospel reversed his loves, his affections, his mindset, his thinking, his pattern of life – everything was changed by a sovereign Savior. We must have the same confidence in Christ that Paul had:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Corinthians 5:17-21 ESV)

Nearly five million people have heard Macklemore’s version of the gospel. [Update for September 2013, now 75 million people have viewed the video]. They now need to hear the truth from Christians who genuinely love them.

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About the author: Carmen Fowler LaBerge

Carmen Fowler LaBerge heads the ministry of the Presbyterian Lay Committee as its President and Executive Editor of its publications, including The Layman.

74 comments

  1. Gawd says:

    What language is the original bible written in? how are you so sure the translation is not 100% authentic? If the devil is in the details, I am sure the current iteration is unholy as fcuk

    • Gary says:

      The original language were Hebrew,Aramaic, and Kione greek. As the English language changes time to time. The Bible needs to be modernized with new English words, because let say a 26th century man reading the Bible from the 21st century and the in the 26th century the words have different meanings and words has been replaced. Would the 26th century man understand? Also older manuscripts has been found and they are more accurate. The copies of the original text is 99.5% accurate.

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  3. Susan says:

    OMG, im laughing so hard right now, whoever wrote this must have deleted my first comment because I made their argument invalid using quotes from the bible ,. Oh haha that is so funny :D

  4. guest says:

    susan and Andrew, ” the 21st century” PCUSA.

  5. Nick says:

    You are all ignorant. I hope that you do realize that God ever said that homosexuality is sin and neither did Jesus Christ. The people who wrote the Bible made much of it on their own. The fact that our religion focuses on a book written by others besides our lord is beyond me and the condemnation that you all bring upon people who are doing nothing against our God just amazes me. Lead a good life, do not break the Commandments and that is the best you can do for God nothing more and nothing less. Please keep this in your thoughts the next time you are chastising someone for doing nothing wrong.

  6. Jb says:

    All you people claiming to be christian but saying “we all sin” are deveived. Repent of your sin. Put down the westminster cathechism and pick up the bible. Faith alone is dead faith. Stop being charmed by Augustine also… Sin is a choice you make and not part of human constitution. And sin is definately not a work of faith, but rather, a work of unbelief.

    • Douglas Duncan says:

      1 John 1:8-9 8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…

      Romans 3:23 For All Have Sinned and Come Short of the Glory of God.

      Mark 12:30-31 …30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ 31″The second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

      We should point out that we all sin and are all in the same boat of judgement without Jesus Christ. The idea that we should not say “we are all sinners” is not Biblical or sound doctrine.

      It doesn’t mean we condone sin or promote sin, it means we identify a common thread and the reason for the need of a savior.

      To do otherwise is to esteem ourselves higher than our fellow man. Also not Biblical.

      Philippians 2:3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves,

      If we don’t show others love then nothing else we have to show or teach them will be received.

  7. Jeff Winter says:

    A couple of Sundays ago I had a Lutheran pastor preach at the church I serve. He stated that he has had same sex attractions his entire life. The gay community has exhorted him to express himself homosexually; to “celebrate” his homosexuality with another man. He humbly told the congregation that he could not express himself as a gay man because he would go against the clear teaching of Scripture ….that God created sexual expression to be between a man and a woman in the context of marriage. I admire greatly this Lutheran pastor because he has stood firmly on the truth of Scripture and has remained celibate.

  8. Joe says:

    Being gay is NOT a choice!! I started going to church when I was 7 years old, and asked the Lord into my heart when I was 10. I am and always have been a strong believer and was always active in my church. I was there at least 6 days a week, did the mission trips, camps, youth seminars, led bible studies, etc.. Well, I started to realize that I was attracted to men when I was around 13. I prayed every single day, multiple times, for God to take those feelings away and make me normal. I can’t tell you how many times I sat awake all night in my bed reading my bible absolutely sobbing, crying out to God. Well, they didn’t go away. As a matter of fact, I didn’t have a single relationship until my senior year of high school because I was not attracted AT ALL to women, and wasn’t going to get with a guy because I was sure that God was going to make me “normal.” By the time I was 19, I was still, only attracted to men! I tried dating a couple girls, and it just was horrible. After six years of praying and doing my best to follow Christ and serve him, that was when I finally decided to come out. I am still a firm believer in Christ, and know that only God knows my heart .

    • Wittknit says:

      It’s not about what you feel it’s about right and wrong. I feel like having sex with animals Where do you draw the line. There is a way that seems right to man but it’s end is destruction.

      • Jimcracky says:

        If you feel like having sex with animals, I don’t think you’re building any foundation for being a source of moral authority. You equate the fullness of human love in all of its beautiful dimensions to the sexual abuse of an animal. The first occasions between two adult human beings who willing enter into committed relationship while the latter refers to sexual perversion between a manipulative human and a creature that can neither consent nor refuse. It is beyond insulting and illustrates the bankruptcy of your position that you invoke so foul a comparison. If your response represents Christian thought, you do the church no service in voicing it.

      • Suzie says:

        Yeah, because animals can consent to a relationship like loving, kind, human beings can. Aren’t you tired of that rhetoric? People like you are so wrapped up in your own hate, you actually can’t see how wrong you are.

        • Loren Golden says:

          God through Scripture does not condemn loving, kind relationships between two people of the same gender, whereas He does condemn sexual intercourse between two people of the same gender (Gen. 19.4-9 [cf. Jude 7], Ex. 18.22, 20.13, Dt. 23.17, Judg. 19.22-25, Rom. 1.24-27, I Cor. 6.9-11, I Tim. 1.9-10).

        • George says:

          Homosexuality is a sin that will cause you to burn in the deepest corner of Hell unless it is given up and forgiveness is sought from Jesus. The Bible is absolutely 100 percent clear on this. There is no argument to the contrary.

          • Anon says:

            There is no verse that says “Homosexuality is a sin that will cause you to burn in the deepest corner of Hell” – Never misquote scripture and never preach a fear-centered gospel, Jesus didn’t do his ministry like that and neither should we. Christ redeems and forgives and loves all.

    • tim loyal says:

      I am confused. you said you accepted Jesus at age 10 but then you say your gay? the two do not go together as from 10 you woul dhave been a new creature. Did you baptize in the name of Jesus? were you filled with the Holy Ghost? if not you were not a new creature nor accepted anyone. you can not accept Jesus, you can have faith he is the Son and the sacrifice. but he must accept you. He can only accept you after you have known you broke the Law and known the unatural acts are sinful. If you did not understand this then you could not repent from it. When you truly come to Jesus it will be on Jesus terms not yours. When you ready to accept that Jesus has made the head of the home the man and the man over the woman and two are one flesh then you will be ready to repent and have faith in Jesus as the son and sacrifice. then you will show your faith by being baptized in Jesus name and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and the evidence is the tongues as it decends upon you. Without this you can not be saved. You must hang the old man on the cross as your bought and paid for. If you had known this then you could not say me, me, and I, I, in every sentence. it would be him, him, and Lord, Lord,

  9. Rory says:

    This article would have been greatly strengthened by interacting with / quoting at length some Christians who themselves are gay and who have wrestled with how the Lord would have them respond – I’m thinking particularly of Wesley Hill. This would also be a better article if it acknowledged the reasons that many perceive the church to focus inordinately on homosexuality and if it offered a lament for the ways Christians have often caricatured and mistreated gay people.

  10. Alexander Leach says:

    Alright here’s my take like it or not .
    I’m a gay man yes I’m going stright to hell by your standards , I’m in a committed 23 year relationship .
    Do I party and hae weird sex with others no I don’t . Do I actively seek to get others to join in my reindeer games ? No I don’t .do I love God with my whole heart ? Yes I do . Do I belive in the Bible ? Well I do to a point as for the it began as the written word of God the Father and Creator of us all .
    In saying that how many times has it changed ? How many different interpitations are there ? It has changed to sett the Rule of the day . I’m speaking of those who have ruled the earth as Kings And Queens .
    Popes and such . When and where did Christ’s teachings ever say anything about sex male / male , female / female in the New Testemement ? He taught compassion and love saying the only way to The Father was Through him . Also the roman Churh has kept hidden his teachings as during the time of birth and the age of 33 . When he died on the cross for all our sins it’s said he would be back well the cross is broken and he is back ! He is here to judge us all not just the Gays but yes you too . Those of you who claim to be Christians and love God , get it together and quit casting stones ,am it going to hell that’s for the returned Christ and the one God to decide not you . Get off it and look at your own sins ,understand this we all sin ! Look at the ones you forgot about or have pushed under . He has returned , he walks with us today we are in the end times now and it will be worse for you if you chose to ignor it and preach how Gays are going to hell most will bw ok it’s the ones who have sined against God the Father that will die and never be with him in heaven ! Oh his Name is Ra-el , he is the returned Christ . Love God Love Each Other .

    • Lauren says:

      The author never said you were going straight To hell…truth is without the blood of Christ we’d all be doing that…all the author is pointing out is what the bible says and how God will change us of we allow him to!! I’m not saying I’m perfect because none of is are but just like every other sin the bible talk about if we allow him to Jesus can overcome yours! He can overcome mine…Jesus didn’t die only for those things that we percieve as sin he died for all of them! The most important thing to say is yes we are to have compassion but Jesus had compassion for others without condoning their sin…we have compassion because you are human and because we are commanded to love one another but Jesus never commanded us to love the sin only the sinner!

    • Myron Stambaugh says:

      Alexander,
      The NIV, as with most other modern translations of the Bible, are not handed down over the centuries with the opinions of Kings added in. It has not been changed to set the rule of the day. The NIV (I’m just using this translation because I am familiar with it) was translated in 1980 from ORIGINAL Biblical texts. These original Biblical texts are real and can be read, straight off the page, by those who understand Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. Many of the original texts used to translate the NIV date back to the time of Christ, and before. Ask yourself why all legitimate modern translations say the same thing. The only difference is in flow and word choice. If they all come off saying pretty much the same thing that tells me that that is exactly what the original manuscripts say. It is really just up to you and me if we have the faith to believe it and trust God for his power to change us…yes, change us.

  11. JC says:

    Why is the devil seen as the antagonist of the bible? God killed 2,476,633 people in the bible (not even including Noah’s flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc.) and the devil killed a whoooooppppiiiinggggggg… 10 people. I’m pretty scared of this “God” dude.

    • Loren Golden says:

      If you were, indeed, “scared of” God, as you claim, you would do well. As the Psalmist wrote, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; a good understanding have all those who do His commandments.” (Ps. 111.10) Likewise, in Proverbs it is written, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.” (Prov. 1.7) And again, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.” (Prov. 9.10) And yet again, “The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom, and before honor is humility.” (Prov. 15.33) Likewise, the Lord Jesus said, “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Mt. 10.28) However, given the pugnacious tone of your post, I very seriously doubt that you really do fear God. Remember that God is the omnipotent Creator of all that exists, and He is the sovereign Ruler over all that He has created. He has established moral laws with which He requires us to comply. Any disobedience to those laws is sin, and all sin is an affront to His authority as the divine and sovereign Ruler of all Creation. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Rom. 3.23) and “the wages of sin is death.” (Rom. 6.23) That God has killed people in recompense for their sin is His justice. That He has allowed others to live is His mercy and His longsuffering. “What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory?” (Rom. 9.22-23) Now, “do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God is meant to lead you to repentance?” (Rom. 2.4)
      What, then, of the devil? The Lord Jesus said of him, “He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of lies.” (Jn. 8.44) The Apostle Peter wrote, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.” (I Pet. 5.8) Satan, or the devil, is the leader of the one third of the angelic host that fell into sin long ago (Rev. 12.3-9). He uses his tongue to deceive, lying and telling half-truths, hoping thereby to incite sin and rebellion in the hearts of men and women (Gen. 3.1-5, Mt. 4.1-11). He has no power to kill anyone, only to deceive. Of him we must be wary, lest we believe his lies, become puffed up with pride, and fall into the same condemnation as he (I Tim. 3.6). But of him we should have no fear.

  12. percy says:

    “it is said that men may not be the dreams of the gods, but that the gods are the dreams of men”

  13. percy says:

    all these so-called christians are criminals with double standards! i mean the nerve of them!!
    yes they read the bible, but i find it very interesting how they always manage to pick and quote only the scriptures that suit their agenda.
    why do i never hear any christian quote a passage where god advocates slavery in leviticus 25?
    i mean if really that is the god you expect me to follow you have another thing coming; if really this is the god that people are so fervently working to get to his heaven then im sorry but i do not want to be in his heaven.
    if the one true god would create a race of selfish, judgemental, egotistical, arrogant, sex obsessed, money-hungry individuals for the sole purpose of worshiping him, im sorry to say this but he must be an under-achiever.

    • Loren Golden says:

      Percy, perhaps you should do your research to know what Christianity actually teaches before lashing out in judgment.

      The one true God did not “create a race of selfish, judgmental, egotistical, arrogant, sex-obsessed, money-hungry individuals.” He created humankind upright, noble, loving, and just. But our first parents disobeyed His command not to eat the fruit of a certain tree, and through that one act of disobedience, they fell into sin, and as a result, all of their progeny—the whole human race, that is—is born into sin. As King David wrote, “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Ps. 51.5) Before the Flood, “the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (Gen. 6.5) And after the Flood, He declared that still “the intention of man’s heart is evil from his youth.” (Gen. 8.21) Likewise, the Prophet Jeremiah wrote, “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jer. 17.9) Thus, as a result of the fall, not as a result of God’s creation, ours is “a race of selfish, judgmental, egotistical, arrogant, sex-obsessed, money-hungry individuals;” in a word, a race of sinners. And because we are sinners, we sin—not the other way around. And this is evident from the earliest age—after all, no one has ever had to teach a child how to lie. But this has left us in desperate straits—our God is a holy God who is greatly offended by our sin. Of Him, the Prophet Habakkuk wrote, “You are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong.” (Hab. 1.13) And indeed, the Lord declared through the Prophet Ezekiel, “Behold, all souls are mine; … the soul who sins shall die.” (Ezek. 18.4,20) And this is a very serious problem for us, because as the Apostle Paul wrote, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Rom. 3.23) and as he elsewhere confirmed, “the wages of sin is death.” (Rom. 6.23) On top of this, God requires that we be perfect; as the Lord Jesus Himself said, “You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Mt. 5.48) And in His judgment of us, He will not let anything slip. As the Lord Jesus also said, “I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt. 12.36-37)

      So then, how do we get rid of this great burden of guilt that is brought on us by our sin? Do we work it off? How? God requires us to be perfect, and when we obey His Law, we are only doing what is required of us. To pay the debt we owe Him for all the wrong that we have done Him is not something that we can possibly do. And even if we could do everything perfect from this moment forward, there is still this great burden of debt that we owe Him on account of our sin, for which we justly deserve to die, as His great and awesome moral perfection and holiness requires. Christians aren’t “fervently working to get to His heaven” because “all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment;” (Is. 64.6) that is, even our best works done in obedience to His Law are tainted by our sin. Our works are, quite simply, not good enough. And they never can be good enough for us to earn our way into heaven.

      That’s where Jesus Christ comes in. Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God (Mt. 16.16-17, Jn. 1.1-18) who dwelt in glory with God the Father before the world existed (Jn. 17.5), who humbled Himself and emptied Himself of that glory in order to be born as a man (Phil. 2.6-7), born of poor parents (Lk. 1-2; the offering of two birds that was made in Lk. 2.22-24 for his mother’s purification in obedience to the Law in Lev. 12 was the offering required of those who could not afford a lamb for the burnt offering, as allowed per Lev. 12.8), born to be a man subject to the Law of God (Gal. 4.4), as are we. While He walked this earth, He was “tempted as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb. 4.15) Jesus Christ was the one exception to the rule that all have sinned, for He alone among humankind never committed sin against God’s Law (II Cor. 5.21, Heb. 7.26, I Pet. 2.22, I Jn. 3.5). Indeed, He came to fulfill God’s Law (Mt. 5.17, 26.54-56, Lk. 24.44-46, Jn. 13.18).

      And that is why He went to the Cross. Jesus Christ went to the Cross in obedience to His Father (Phil. 2.8) in order to bear the penalty for all of the sins of everyone who is called by His name (Is. 53.5-6,12, Rom. 3.25, Heb. 9.27-28, I Pet. 2.24, 3.18). And He rose again from the dead so that at His return, all who owned Him as Savior and Lord in this life will be resurrected to live with Him forevermore (Jn. 11.25-26, I Cor. 15.51-57, I Thess. 4.13-18).

      Now this great salvation that Jesus Christ has secured cannot be earned by any amount of works but is only appropriated through faith in Him alone. “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.” (Rom. 3.28) “Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.” (Gal. 2.16) “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Eph. 2.8-9)

      Now, does God still want our obedience? Does He still want us to refrain from sin and to do works that He commands of us? Absolutely! “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? … So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions.” (Rom. 6.1-12) “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.” (Eph. 2.10) “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (Jas. 2.14-17) So then, God still requires us to do works; but these are required of us as from a grateful heart for so great a salvation that has been wrought on our behalf by the sacrifice on the Cross of Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God made flesh, and they in no way, shape, or form contribute to our salvation, which is ours through faith in Christ alone.

      Now, that is the God that I am asking you to trust and follow, to put your faith in His only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. For, as the Apostle Peter said, “there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4.12)

      And as for your comment regarding the Old Testament laws regarding slavery in Leviticus 25.39-55, I would refer you to my blog, which can be reached by clicking my name at the top of this post, where you will find a post entitled “Slavery and the Bible”, which I wrote a little more than a year ago addressing this very topic.

      Peace be with you,
      Loren Golden

      • percy says:

        If indeed there is the one true God, and if he is everything that the bible says he is, then God betrayed humanity! according to the bible God is all-knowing, God is omni-potent… If indeed this is true then why did he create the devil even though he knew that one day he would try to “overthrow” him? i mean if he is all these things he must have known, but still he went ahead, was it just a game to him? he knew the devil would fall and that man would suffer the same fate, but that didnt stop him…
        from the above i can conclude that God betrayed us, he set us up for the fall, perhaps he isnt as just and kind as you all say he is.

        “Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot
        …or he can but does not want to,
        …or he cannot and does not want to,
        …or lastly he can and wants to.
        If he wants to remove evil, and cannot, he is not omnipotent.
        If he can, but does not want to, he is not benevolent.
        If he neither can nor wants to, he is neither omnipotent nor benevolent;
        But if God can abolish evil and wants to, and if evil still exists, then God must not be God”.
        God does not exist. God is santa clause for adults.

        • Loren Golden says:

          Essentially, your question is this: If God is absolutely good and hates evil, and if God is omniscient and knew beforehand that evil would exist, and if God is omnipotent and is able to eradicate evil, or even to stop it from coming into existence, then why does evil exist. This would be a much better way of framing your question without impugning God’s character.

          We Presbyterians have a catechism, the first question of which asks, “What is the chief end of man?”, to which the answer is, “The chief end of man is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever.” (Westminster Shorter Catechism, Q.1) Central to this end is that we know God. As the Lord Jesus said in His high priestly prayer, “And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” (Jn. 17.3) So then, God desires that we human beings know Him.

          Now to this point (and to answer your question), the Apostle Paul wrote, “What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory?” (Rom. 9.22-23) So then, God desires to show His wrath and make known His power, which are part and parcel of the riches of His glory.
          Now, if evil, sin, and suffering did not exist, then:

          God’s justice could not be known in the punishment of sin.
          God’s grace could not be known in the forgiveness of sin.
          God’s longsuffering could not be known in the patient endurance of sin.
          God’s mercy could not be known in the relief of suffering.

          Justice, grace, longsuffering, and mercy are all aspects of God’s character that He wanted to make known to us His creatures so that we can praise Him for them, but they cannot be known except with respect to the existence of evil, sin, and suffering. Therefore, God in His wisdom permitted evil, sin, and suffering to come into existence.

          Now, if God permitted sin to come into existence, does that make Him its author? We Presbyterians very emphatically confess that God is not the author of sin (Westminster Confession of Faith Ch. III §1). As James the brother of the Lord Jesus put it, “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am being tempted by God,’ for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.” (Jas. 1.13-15) So then, the fallen angels and we fallen human beings who sin are responsible for the evil that we do; God is not.

          To be sure, God ordains the evil acts of fallen angels and human beings, but He is not morally culpable for them. As we Presbyterians confess, “God from all eternity did by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby neither is God the author of sin; nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.” (WCF Ch. III, §1) God can restrain fallen angels and human beings and keep evil acts from happening (Gen. 20.6, Jude 24), but He has been known to harden the hearts of evil men who commit sin to keep them from repentance so that His power and vindication can be shown through their punishment (Ex. 4.21, 7.3,13,22, 8.15,19,32, 9.7,12,35, 10.1,20,27, 14.8, Josh. 11.20, I Sam. 2.25, Rom. 9.17-18).
          Now, one might argue, “But that is unfair!” But Paul’s answer to this is,

          You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?
          —Romans 9.19-21

          Moreover, God has used the evil acts of men to bring about His good purposes. For instance, Joseph’s brothers abducted him out of jealously and hatred for their father’s preferential treatment of him and sold him into slavery (Gen. 37.18-28). Yet when they came before him after their father’s death, after he had been made the prime minister of Egypt and they feared that he would exact his revenge upon them, he said of their actions, “As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today.” (Gen. 50.20) That is, whereas Joseph’s brothers intended harm to him out of jealousy and hatred, God intended their actions for the purpose of preserving His covenant people Israel during a seven-year period of famine (Gen. 41-47). And yet, even in His superintention of Joseph’s brothers’ evil acts, God restrained them from greater evil still, for they had intended to kill him (Gen. 37.18).

          Again, the most heinous and evil act in history, Judas’ betrayal of the Lord Jesus to the Sanhedrin, was also superintended by the Father. As the Lord Jesus said during the Last Supper, “The Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.” (Mt. 26.24) Now, the Lord Jesus was “delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God,” (Acts 2.23) and as I pointed out in my response to your previous post, He had come to fulfill what had been written of Him in the Law and the Prophets. Judas’ betrayal was not something that the Lord had not foreseen or had been unable to prevent. To the contrary, Judas’ betrayal had been foretold in the Old Testament Scriptures precisely because the Father had determined—according to His “definite plan”—that this was how He had wanted His Son to be delivered up for the Crucifixion. Judas betrayed Him for thirty pieces of silver (Mt. 26.15; cf. Zech. 11.12), and after the Sanhedrin had taken the Lord Jesus to accuse him before the Roman governor, Judas brought the blood money back to the Sanhedrin, seeking to give it back, but they refused to accept it, and he threw it into the Temple and committed suicide. Afterward, the Sanhedrin took the money and purchased “the potter’s field as a burial place for strangers.” (Mt. 27.3-10; cf. Zech. 11.13) Again, at the Last Supper, Judas had eaten bread with the Lord Jesus just before leaving to rendezvous with the Sanhedrin to coordinate his betrayal (Jn. 13.26-30). Yet prior to this, Jesus had quoted Psalm 41.9, a psalm written by King David that states, “Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me,” and said that this particular passage had to be fulfilled.

          Now in the end, the Lord Jesus will return, and all those who have sinned and have not trusted in Him will be judged for their sin and will be cast into Hell, a place of unspeakable pain and torment, reserved for Satan and the fallen angels, to suffer forevermore on account of their sin (Dan. 12.2, Mt. 25.31-33,41-46, Jn. 5.29, Rev. 19.20, 20.7-15). And those who have trusted in Jesus for their salvation from this fate will be changed from corrupted, fallen human beings to renewed, incorruptible human beings to live with Him forevermore (Dan. 12.2, Mt. 25.31-40,46, Jn. 5.29, I Cor. 15.50-57, I Thess. 4.13-18, Rev. 21.7, 22.14). And thus, evil, sin, and suffering will be abolished (Rev. 21.4), and we who trust in the Lord Jesus, who have been delivered from sin’s penalty and are being delivered from sin’s power will be delivered from sin’s presence.

          Now, as for your quote with its faulty line of reasoning that concludes that “God must not be God”, it is man’s wisdom. But “the foolishness of God is wiser than men.” (I Cor. 1.25) And as for your baseless assertion that “God does not exist,” if you truly believe that in your heart, Psalm 14.1 has something very unflattering to say about you.

        • Chris says:

          The easy answer is god created the devil because he loves him.

          That simple.

          You can’t be good without choosing to be good.

          You cannot make the choice to be good without having the choice to be evil.

          The ability to have this choice is worth more than eliminating the choice and ruling as a totalitarian.

          You have seem the movies, of course, of such a one way behavior city (equilibrium for example)

          God allowed the devil to exist so he could choose and and so we could choose.

          And despite the devil choosing wrongly god still loves him.

          But justice, is not subjective. If you harm another then justice is due not because you the evil person should suffer, but rather because the good person should not. Restitution is needed to make things right with those who do follow god.

          Could god ignore this?

          Yes.

          But he chooses to be justice to the ones who love him, and that is right.

          God is a good being and you have way over thought this.

        • Chris says:

          Side comment:

          The bigger Santa clause argument is that the universe has existed forever despite protons having a half life, and despite the fact that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. The half life is actually the bigger problem here. With the protons this means the universe would eventually fall apart, and this also cannot sustain itself for all eternity. Combine that with an inability to create itself and we have a problem.

          In your scenario the universe created itself from nothing, for no reason at all, because it could (but with it’s own rules it cannot)

          For god an omnipotent being created the universe because he could, and for a reason.

      • Kelvin Smith says:

        Loren Golden

        I’m sorry, I was once like you, but more people have died in the name of Christianity then world war 2..Its a good book to teach you how to control your slaves.

        • Loren Golden says:

          Mr. Smith,
          Please explain how you were “once like me.” Are you suggesting that I believe that killing people “in the name of Christianity” is morally acceptable behavior, or that I advocate slavery, and that you once believed these things before you abandoned Christianity? Did you actually visit my blog, where I have included a post entitled, “Slavery and the Bible”?

        • Chris says:

          The people dying in the name of god is a lie.

          People kill, and those people would do so in the absence of using god as an excuse.

          Also, in current day more people kill in the name of being for secular beliefs than not.

          What religion is North Korea? Remind me because public executions are really bad there.

          What religion was japan? Remind me.

          What religion is china? It’s illegal to practice various religions there.

          On tv, on the majority is it worse to be a secular person, or religious zealot?

          Things haven’t changed. The first people who wrote the bible were documented in what happened to them. One such man had an anchor tied to his neck and was thrown to the sea. The persecution of Christians is documented in Rome. That was not in the name of a god. That was in the name of Rome.

          You are deluding yourself. Pay attention in school. People like you are a dime a dozen. I had secular jerks call me gay because I was a virgin and good looking.

          I had people attack me when I said it was a bad idea to sleep around (dopamine, look it up, you literally ruin your ability to attach intimately over time) and in the name of being against religion, they fight, they insult, and demean.

          I used to be like you. Then I saw evil. It was in spotting the acts of the devil in my life, and realizing the pull to insult religion that I realized a demon was doing it.

  14. Michael says:

    As a nonreligious Jew who was amused by Macklamore’s 3500 year comment, I’d like to offer a few words of advice from another Jew whose been deeply paraphrased, “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

    if your so into keeping The laws of the bible here are a few more.
    According to Leviticus 19:19 and Deuteronomy 22:11, your not only not allowed to wear garments made of different fabrics, your not allowed to cross breed ANYTHING (better crops, animals,,, NOTHING) least you be like the Canaanites.

    Spilling seed is a big no-no, shaving your head, or the sides of your face horrible, and eating anything that doesn’t have hooves and regurgitates it’s food… phhhh don’t even get me started on that one.

    Yet, somehow, straight white Christians seem to remember man and man laying together SO well… strange isn’t it? : \

  15. Doug says:

    Does the bible say that homosexual behavior is wrong? I think it does. But that’s just one of MANY things that the bible says is wrong. If you’re a Christian and wondering why people are “bashing” your beliefs on homosexuality, maybe it’s because you seem to be ONLY concerned with homosexuality. For example, what about the law against working on the Sabbath? For goodness sake, that’s even one of the Ten Commandments, and (like homosexual behavior) it is a sin punishable by death. But where are the Christians calling for a Constitutional amendment to ban working on Sunday? Where are the boycotts of the NFL and Walmart and every other business that requires its employees to work on Sunday?
    Or how about divorce? Depending on how you interpret the bible, either divorce is never allowed, or it is only allowed in very limited circumstances (e.g. adultery). According to the bible, every divorced person who is remarried (and there are millions of them) is committing adultery, a sin that is no better than homosexuality. So how come I never hear a Christian calling a remarried woman an adulterer? Where are the Christians seeking a ban on no-fault divorce, or a ban on second marriages? Why are there no propositions on the ballot for these issues? Surely divorce is far more common than homosexuality, and therefore a much bigger threat.

    • Travis says:

      uhm.. they look down on adultery and divorce the same way as they do with homosexuality. You will never hear a voice of such because it’s become much too acceptable.. as will homosexuality , thus in time you will never hear of a christian/catholic and any other religion that condones it in the late future.
      Unless for propaganda means, via media , etc.

      We are all sinners, we love all those , even those who sin, but it doesn’t mean we approve of it, and neither does god.

  16. Jon says:

    People are “anti-Christian” because a significant amount of them insist on thrusting their beliefs upon others. Religion should be a private individual choice and holds no place in a wider society – science has already provided strong evidence that humans are inherently altruistic, we don’t need the outdated laws of religion (because according to the Bible no true believer must have tattoos, eat shellfish or wear any sort of gold).

    Homosexuality does not harm other humans, society, animals or the environment. Attempting to cure it has been proven to be harmful to the individual. Why not just let LGBT live in peace?

    Comparing homosexuality to pedophillia is disgusting and insulting. Pedophillia damages the child being abused. How is that in any way comparable to being attracted to members of the same sex?

    • Travis says:

      Because pedophillia is soon to be removed by the pyschological hand book as a “sexuality” not a “disorder” haha.
      Welcome to the new world of sexual deviance.. I wonder how the roman empire did with all that?

      • Jimcracky says:

        Spare us the pedophilia nonsense. That is a crime of abuse by an adult in a position of power over a child without the physical strength to resist nor the cognitive capacity to consent. It has nothing to do with marriage or even consensual sex between adults. Marriage in its current state, whether same sex or opposite sex, is a consensual relationship entered into by two people on an equal basis. (This is unlike “marriage” of only a century ago where women were chattel passed from father to husband – a practice willingly endorsed by the Christian Church.) Equating same-sex adult couples entering into marriage with pedophiles is a statement of ignorance, desperation or both.

  17. joe says:

    the culture in western civilization is increasingly becoming hyper sensitive. any voice that doesn’t mimic the anti-god, anti-conservative diatribe being shouted down from the ivory tower by the latest face of fame is immediately labeled a bigot and a hater. they can’t comprehend or won’t admit to the reality that there is evil in this world. god has a design, there is a path, but most choose to rebel and venture off into the wilderness on their own, quickly becoming lost and confused.

    people are born gay, they have no choice but to partake in the act of gay sex, so how can this be a sin? the same science that tells us people are born gay also tells us that people are born pedophiles. of course we just haven’t quite “evolved” enough yet as a society to see that pedophiles deserve equal and fair treatment under the law. perhaps states should reconsider age of consent laws as to not ‘discriminate’ against our pedophile brothers. after all, as macklemore would say “they can’t change”.

    http://articles.kspr.com/2013-05-15/offenders_39289011

    • Alexia says:

      Stop comparing homosexuality to pedophilia you just sound crazy. Yes there is some evidence to suggest that some pedophiles are caused by genetics. In the end all that really matters is who us being hurt? I have no problem with homosexuality as long as it is between two consenting adults. Pedophilia by definition is not between two consenting adults making it damaging to the child. How does homosexuality hurt you? It is just natural population control.

  18. Sad how some promote #Love but have such distaste towards #LGBT community. Especially those who refuse to acknowledge the first language the scripture was written in and it’s true meaning. Some go around preaching with lofty words but are empty inside. The tide is turning and those who oppose their gay brothers and sister will be know in history like those who used the Bible to endorse slavery.

    • Lauren says:

      I think that you put emphasis on one sin and forget about all the rest that we disagree with! I am a Christian and yes I think homosexuality is wrong yet I have several gay friends! The thing is God commanded me to love them as a person and being lgbt is only part of who they are as a person! I think that you associate all Christians by the ones who say everyone is going to hell whose gay NO! The bible says for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) but it also says in john 3:16-18 but God so loved the world that he have his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not enter the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes in God is not condemed but he that believes not is condemed already because he has not believed in the only begotten son of God! I pray that you recognize that some people who parade around in the name of Christianity are not what Christians are supposed to be. We are called to love and in that love to tell someone when they are doing wrong whether that be homosexuality or living with someone outside of marriage or even lying! God bless you!

    • Tina says:

      How can you compare it to slavery? Do some research on the horrible history of slavery.

  19. Roberto says:

    I wonder how those who believe that God ordained marriage to between a man and a woman feel about God ordaining that a father can sell his daughter into slavery and the idea of a woman wearing men’s clothes being an abomination. Also, the Bible expressly forbids wearing garments made of more than one type of material, like the socks that most of us wear every day.
    Do we need to heed all these rules as well, or do we just pick and chose the ones we think God “really meant.”

    • God ordain marriage? Which version? Because the Old Testament has different version. The Bible also endorses a rape victim marrying the person who rape them. How many of us would follow that if we had daughters?

    • Travis says:

      Uhh, was that one of the commandments? or was that just in a story that atheists and gays like to use in hopes that no one has read the “STORY” or the passage it contains?

  20. Julia says:

    You say that God made us and He can change us, but He makes us in His image. Being gay is something you’re born with. Just as I was born straight. I’m sure most people weren’t born a “money-lover” to be changed into a God lover. Also, to clear this up, homosexuality is not a sin. While acting upon your desires towards your same sex is said to be a sin, simply loving another man or woman as you would a husband or wife is not. I also believe that how a person decides to live THEIR life should be THEIR business. I understand you are firm in your faith and you wish to spread the word of God. I appreciate that, but to say that others are wrong to love someone because of their gender is not what spreading the word is about. Encourage them to follow in your footsteps, but don’t imply that they are the biggest sinners in existence because they don’t follow.

  21. Lauren says:

    I agree completely Ginny. I am a Christian with several gay friends. Are they good people? Absolutely! Funny, kind hearted, generous, great people, and I love spending time with them. Just because I do not agree with their belief in homosexuality, does not mean that I shun the person themself. I hold fast to my Christian beliefs on marriage between a man and a woman. However, disagreeing and disrespecting another’s point of views are two different things. As far as this song goes, I find it rather disrespectful with the reference to the BIble. It’s sad that mainstream media has become an outlet for Bible bashing, sexuality, and foul language (and we are letting our children listen to it).

  22. Ginny says:

    I am a Christian, and I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. That does not mean I hate gay people. That does not mean I loathe all homosexuals.

    Now, when people say that they were born homosexuals, I can agree with that to a point. We are humans, sinful by nature. We are born with imperfections, some more difficult than others. But to say a homosexual can not change is like saying a sex-addict can not change. ANYONE can change. I’ve met people who have gone from being the very opposite of what the Bible stands for, to becoming missionaries. And that didn’t happen because some Christians shoved shiny, new copies of the Bible down their throats. It happened because they were in dark times, and didn’t know where to turn. So they turned to this stranger, this “God”. And their eyes were opened.

    Christians are not to judge, and I apologize to any homosexual who has endured harassment by such individuals. Christians are not above the rest; we are also sinful creatures.

    If a man wants to be with a man, or woman with woman, we as Christians can only tell about the Bible. We can not change man’s heart; only God can do that. My church has gays and we treat them as equals. But we still do not believe that homosexuality is okay, and I, personally, will continue to believe in what the Bible says. I’ll sum this up with the phrase, “Accept the sinner, not the sin.”

    • grace says:

      Very well said Ginny. Jesus loves all his children but at the end of our lives we cant possibly all be his children if we didnt pick up our crosses and follow him. I really empathize with gay people thatfeel like theyre trapped and feel judgment on a day to day basis. To be honest, there sin is no ‘bigger’ than the little boy who stole a cookie out of the cookie jar and lied about it. I struggle in my heart and want to connect with homoosexuals and pray that God will help me knowthe right and caring words to share with these lovely people. But while i emapathize with homosexuals about their feelings my heart hurts when i hear a song like macklemore sings as it attacks my ‘other half’ and my saviour. While Macklemore and many people of society feel as a christian that i attack their beliefs of their feelings and love, i too hurt when words like this are spoken as a message back. While many homosexuals and supporters ofhomosexuality fight back to homophobia and non-supporters, i can only do the same to people who misrepresent my Lord. As they stand up for their beliefs i will stand up for mine. Because my God loves, he forgives and he will restore all of the broken hearts and wipe away every tear from his childrens eyes. Never lose heart in a God that loves you and died for you so that we may live eternally with him.

      • Suzie says:

        Reading things like, “picking up the cross,” and, “my saviour,” is really creepy. You people have a, “relationship” with something that doesn’t exist.
        I’ve come to the conclusion on why people believe in this nonsense. It’s either a case of, A: kids who believe in god because they don’t have a choice and are just parroting what their parents force them to hear and believe.
        Or, B: Adults who have not a clue how to go through life and depend on their own instincts, decisions and choices. Instead, they are people who have been let down by their fellow humans. Either they were abused physically and/or verbally by a parent, a close relative, a significant other or possibly a stranger. They may be an addict of some kind.
        But what they all have in common is that they completely stop using common sense, and take up the, “Jesus take the wheel” mentality.
        I find it sad that people get so caught up in something that doesn’t exist, and they convince themselves that a book or a creepy preacher is going to show them how to live. And so often it’s very provacative. They sway with their hands in the air. Some of them actually speak jiberish, thinking they are actually talking to some spirit in the sky. And they cry when they sing, like they are being transformed. Talk about scary.
        I do feel bad for these people at first…but when they start picking and choosing who they shun, then I realize they are just ridiculous, lost little sheep.
        Good luck with that, all of you who live this way. I do hope you find the truth…the real world. We’ll wait for you. Get out while you still have a thought of your own in your head.
        You’ll find real, honest happiness. You can begin to feel good about the person you are, not the person you think some sky spirit wants you to be.

        • Word says:

          Hey Suzie,
          What this really sounds like is that you don’t want to accept an authority in your life and that you want to be your own God, (I’ll jump straight to the critique since you did too.) To say that there is no designer to life which is so obviously designed is kind of ignorant. Your heart is centered in your body and pumps blood throughout your body in an intricate network where every part plays a role in keeping you alive. The earth is the only planet in our solar system with a sun that sustains it without being too close or too far away, it feeds plants with photosynthesis so that they can provide oxygen for us to breathe, and males and females have opposite sex organs that work perfectly to ensure reproduction (I could go on but I’ll stop there). But by your logic we are all accidents with no creator and everything just happened like that?

          “I do feel bad for these people at first…but when they start picking and choosing who they shun, then I realize they are just ridiculous, lost little sheep.”

          Guess what the picking and choosing who they shun thing you see in Christians is? It’s called sin and you do the same thing everyday yet you choose to pick and Choose Christians to shun. So now, you are in the same boat, all of this is based off of your logic , in fact your entire comment is shunning and judging a people group, and the premise of your argument seems to be condemning that practice. I hope that one day you will find the truth that life is not about you, and that you are just as much in need of a Savior as all of us creepy handwaving Christians.

  23. charles says:

    Gay rights and marriage will win in the end. Theres no point in trying to stop it. Soon all religions will support gay marriage and all of society will take gay marriage for granted. The new definition of marriage is the union of two people under the eyes of society and state.
    Notice how i just said two people not a man and a woman and how I said society not God. God is becoming irrelevent in the modern world and the corrupt laws of the church no longer have any power.

    • Paul says:

      Simply put, the Church is not corrupt; your perception of it is corrupt. The Church teaches God’s laws which are pure, and made out of love for His children so that they may follow Him. Give me any example of this “corruption” and i will point out how it is flawed (I will mention, however, that the ppl in the Church may be corrupt from sin, but the Church itself is not). God is not becoming irrelevant to the modern world. But in America, the society is becoming so anti-God that Christians are the ones being persecuted the most. Yet they don’t say anything or stand up for themselves because they don’t want to “offend anyone”, and the media actually supports Christian prosecution. And finally, the one religion that will never support gay marriage, i can assure you, is Catholicism (and most protestant denominations). I implore you, out of love, to actually study the Church, it’s teachings, and to have a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

    • Chris says:

      You mean the power that held us back hundreds of advancing because anybody who argued against your beliefs was killed and punished.

      Christians: Earth is flat
      Science: No its round
      Christians: The Earth is at the center of our universe
      Science: False, the sun is
      ETC
      Its no wonder why Christians are losing all of their authority

      • Travis says:

        The bible didn’t say these things.. sinners of the CHURCH did.
        RELIGION didn’t hold back advancement , people within the church full of sin as those outside of it .. did!

        Stop and think before you right down some hate.

        • Alexia says:

          Actually the bible does say that the Earth is flat

          “That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?” Job 38:13

          Notice the term ends of the Earth. I can’t remember the verse but there is also something about someone sitting above the circle of the Earth.

          If you have a basic understanding of geometry you would know that there is a big different between a circle and a sphere.

      • Ryan says:

        Most people, including Christians, said that the Earth was round. It is a common misconception that a significant amount of people believed that the Earth was flat. Famous scientists, like Ptolemy and Aristotle, also believed in geocentrism for hundreds of years until Copernicus and Galileo made heliocentrism plausible. One of the primary reason’s why geocentrism died out was because of a paradigm shift, basically the old guard died out and that seems to be the case with homesexuality, civil liberties, etc.

    • Kathryn says:

      This is bunk ! All religion will support gay marriage lol . This is what you want to happen but you are naive and very foolish . Gay marriage has no place in religion. Homosexuality is sin against God . Again your opinion is bunk

    • Kathryn says:

      God will never be irrelevant to the world
      Bunk !

    • Matt says:

      And thank God (pun intended) for this! If church leaders had any real power, we’d all be screwed. The church leaders I’ve met over the years ended up being some of the most unethical, dishonest, con artists I’ve ever met. Lawyers are better people than church leaders.

      Also, David and Jonathan in the Old Testament? Gay. The apostle Paul? Gay. Jesus? Probably gay.

      Don’t think for a minute that there weren’t many alternate gospels that were suppressed by the church. And that’s too bad… Christianity might look much different right now.

  24. Sam says:

    Amen. Thank you so much for this article. God changes the heart. He is the way, truth and life. He will NEVER change. and he loves us unconditionally. But our Creator deserves to be respected so much more. This song is disrespectful of His perfection and authority. But how do we counteract this movement without appearing “hateful”?

    • Nikki says:

      I often wonder how to tell christians these things without being hateful. I should probably say i’m not gay before I proceed. The truth of the matter is when looking at the bible people realize its faults (there’s thousands of them), and it looses face value. People begin to take it more lightly, as a “moral guide line” some would say, then it becomes dreadfully obvious that you don’t need an ancient book with questionable authority telling you how to be a good person. They realize we were born kind hearted.

      You say you’re representing a selfless philanthropic individual, but you’re doing that by hating others. You already are hateful. That was established during the Crusades. People commit suicide because of the way you and you’re community throw hatred towards them. They feel that they are gay the same you feel that you are a christian; whether you’re right or wrong in the end it is just a choice you made that makes you an individual. Better yourself instead of focusing on people who make their own decisions with their own lives. You’re not going to convert a gay, and a gay is not going to convert you.

      • Word says:

        Nikki, pull out some quotes and show me the “thousands of flaws” so that you can give someone a chance to refute them. Next, let’s not categorize a group of people like this:

        “You already are hateful. That was established during the Crusades. People commit suicide because of the way you and you’re community throw hatred towards them.”

        I’ll play by your rules to show you the flaws in them: Oh the classic Crusades reference; man Christians must have been the only people group to cause war and death right? Wrong.
        Hitler was an atheist and he committed the biggest genocide in human history (sound hateful to you?), Pol Pot was an atheist and also committed genocide, and let’s not forget Joseph Stalin who literally hunted Christians down and burned churches to the ground. All of those guys seem pretty hateful and intolerant to me, but wait, they weren’t Christians so your logic is pretty flawed.

        Where does that leave us with humans then? I have now pointed out that we all have something wrong with us, it’s not just Christians it’s everyone, i’s sin. Christians have it too and the ones that you are targeting could be compared to Biblical pharisees which were self-righteous religious leaders in the Jewish community. And guess what? Jesus didn’t say gay people were going to hell, He said they were.

        I feel like I shouldn’t even have to point out the obvious that you are trying to isolate Christians as the sole people group that “make people commit suicide”, because I’m sure that many atheists, buddhists, hell maybe even some Rastafarians have made people commit suicide as well.

        “People begin to take it more lightly, as a “moral guide line” some would say, then it becomes dreadfully obvious that you don’t need an ancient book with questionable authority telling you how to be a good person. They realize we were born kind hearted.” So after everything I have pointed out, if you ever read this, you might be seeing that you don’t sound so clever and culturally in-touch as you thought you did. It now looks like that we all have a predisposition that in fact does not make it look like we were born “kind hearted.”

        Maybe if Hitler had looked at “an ancient book with questionable authority” instead of following his heart and killing millions of people the world would have been better off.

        Read the Bible, read what Jesus says. Jesus is the ultimate example of the way to live life that none of us can ever live up to and that’s why we need Him.

    • Brian says:

      The devil is cunning. Ask 100 “Christians” if hate is a sin, and 99 will say “yes”. However, God Himself hates. While it is true that God loves all of His Children, not all people can be called children of God. That being said, God not only loves all of His Children, but He loves all of humanity. Christ died for the World, but not everyone will accept his forgiveness. Forgiveness from what? Ah, now here is where we find out how God hates. He hates sin. Sin is anything that God Himself has declared to be wrong in His word. You shall not lie with mankind as with womankind seems to leave little room for “misinterpretation”.

      So the devil tricks “good Christians” into believing that hate itself is sin. Then the father of all lies puts a label on God’s word as “hate speech”. Let’s take a step back for a moment. If I say that to lie with mankind as with womankind is WRONG, I am full of hate. When you say that the Bible and anyone who believes it is WRONG, how is that not hate? It’s a double standard.

      However, none of this should not come as a surprise to those who follow Christ, since His word has already told us that our way will be narrow; that the preaching of the cross will be considered “foolishness” to the unbeliever, and that in the end times we will be subject to strong delusions.

      • Kris says:

        How can you defend a God who condemns the “sin” of homosexuality when a percentage of gay children are raised Christian? How does God allow “His children” to have offspring who in turn are sinners? A church whose fathers have been caught numerous times with underage boys? Children of God have no right to condemn others when they themselves are just as much sinners. Equality is spreading faster than a you realize and a simple song like this has the power to ignite the spark that some bigotry and ignorance filled religion could never extinguish.

        • DJ says:

          Just a note, but God condemns all sin. Everyone sins. Thus, God condemns everyone. Of course all of his children are sinners because we all sin. It’s not just homosexuality he condemns. It’s everything that is wrong: lying, hating other people, murder, stealing, homosexuality, having sex outside marriage, etc.

          You can’t judge God based on a human’s actions (e.g., a church member who is caught with an underage boy). Even those who are “supposed” to be most christian sin. You don’t stop sinning because you are a christian. Also, as you’re probably well-aware, hypocrisy runs rampant in the church unfortunately. However, God isn’t a hypocrite. He loves everyone, but hates that people sin. He demands perfection in order for us to enter heaven, thus none of us can do so without His help (Jesus dying on the cross, undergoing the punishment for us so that we don’t have to).

          Anyhow, I should also say, I am not opposed to gay marriage. I want to be able to marry who I want, so I don’t see how I can say that someone else shouldn’t be able to do the same, even if I don’t agree with their way of life. I certainly don’t hate them. I sin all the time, so why shouldn’t they? I try not to, but if someone doesn’t believe what I believe why would I expect them to adhere to my rules? Why would I expect them to see homosexuality as a sin? I wouldn’t.

          And God’s all about free will, so he allows pretty much everything. What we do is our decision. I think freedom to do whatever I want (though I might choose not to exercise that freedom completely) is worth the price of the bad things that some people choose to do. I’d rather live in a world where people murder and commit crimes than a world where no one is free to do what they want.

      • Alexia says:

        I’m sorry that you have so much hate in your life. I hope for your sake that you become a kinder more accepting person.

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