Brian McLaren is still given credibility by many Elders in PCUSA. E.G. he is scheduled to speak in a PCUSA church in Fort Worth next April. Our own teaching elder is a big fan of his. Some Elders continue to go to his presentations, and present his books in Church Book Studies. It is well-known that McLaren does not have faith in the traditional Christian doctrine. I’m not diffusing my concern on social, political issues. I am focused on the doctrine that Christ is, by virtue of his substitutionary atonement, the only possible way to the Father and eternal life. This is affirmed many times in the N.T. I have argued this with Elders in my church for 6 years, some of whom adhere to some form of McLaren’s “emerging church” ideas. Can the Layman do an article on McLaren and his pernicious influence in our denomination?
how is it that Jean Cauvin is allowed to post comments on this site?
Thank you George McKee for pointing out the inconsistency of Rev. Dr. Herbert Nelson II’s words on gun violence and his total and complete silence about the injustice of more than a million babies slaughtered annually by abortion–something that the PCUSA incomprehensibly supports! It is time we had a million voices raised in protest to the PCUSA about abortion.
I let the PCUSA in 1999 because of apostasy. It is hard to believe that the denomination has fallen even further into the abyss of Scriptural heresy.
AW I have been feeling that the Scots Reformation faltered when elders quit carrying their basket hilted broadswords to session meetings at the Kirk!
Having spent almost three decades on active duty in the US Army Special Forces in numerous foreign countries, covering multiple armed conflicts, it is understandable that I would have encountered some rather evil-minded people – many of whom appeared to have been chosen by Satan himself. None of whom however, ever professed to be a Christian who believed in the Son of God. All of whom openly expressed their hate and disdain for Christians – especially American Christians.
During these past several years, however, I have encountered a more dangerous type of evil-minded-individuals who have attempted to destroy my church. What makes these people and their evil actions more deadly than those I faced in combat is that unlike the enemies I had encountered before – enemies who openly expressed their hate and disdain for Christians – these cowards hide behind the mantle of Christianity while sewing their evil seeds of deceit, dishonesty, and utter disdain for the Constitution of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). Some of these same despicable individuals then stand piously in a pulpit on Sunday preaching the Holy Scriptures sanctimoniously masking their disdain and – outright hate – towards anyone who would question their behavior or that of their evil comrades-in-arms. These same sanctimonious, dishonorable cowards believe that they do not have to follow their own Christian Presbyterian Constitution as they demand that other “more lowly” congregational members do.
Who are these sanctimonious, evil cowards? Some reside within the authoritative body of the Presbytery of the Cimarron, boldly enabled by a gelded Synod. Their deceitful, unchristian and cowardly actions – like others within the PC(U.S.A.) – are the driving force behind the church losing tens of thousands of members each year. Whenever they meet, they complement each other and pat each other on the back like a pack of rats picking lice off of each other. They apply the Constitution of our church only when it suits their evil ways, and when someone points out their violations or inconsistencies, they shrug them off as meaningless, unimportant, or non-existent. Or, they may even attempt to cowardly walk away from their responsibility by claiming that what they had said or written was a mistake or misinterpreted by the reader. They are syphilis upon the body of the church, and I pray God’s wrath upon them for their actions.
I was warned by my fellow Christian Presbyterians when I started this journey, that what I was attempting to do was akin to – as one person described it – “pushing marshmallows through a key-hole with a needle.” My naïve reply was that there was a chance for intelligent Christian minds to overcome the despicable actions of these people and for justice to prevail. I did not believe that those in positions of authority either in Cimarron Presbytery or at the Synod of the Sun would be so un-Christian, and so deceitful and dishonest that they would assist in the whitewash of these violations as having no merit or as meaningless or non-existent. But I was wrong. I now see that my mistake was that – while in Vietnam – I did not pay as much attention as I should have to the behavior of the indigenous rats that abounded in my camp in the northern Ashau Valley. Had I paid more attention to their pack-rat behavior, I might have better understood and predicted how these individuals would act – and – I would have listened to my fellow Christian Presbyterians and better spent my time on other matters of the church.
I still stand – albeit saddened – in the shadow of Christ’s Cross.
AW. Reed Elder, First Presbyterian Church of Enid, OK
Well said my brother. We are in the end of days and the LORD’s return is very close. HIS true church is being revealed. These reprobate leaders will hear the dreadful words “I never knew you. Depart from ye, the that work iniquity” Matt 7-23
AW, Bravo, Zulu with your assessment.
The PCUSA is on the road to destruction by those rats, vermin, scum of the elites of the PCUSA, and their reward will be in Rev. chapters 20 and 21 forever, those who have led many to destruction will be themselves destroyed.
One wonders why the radical factions who have taken over PCUSA and did not leave to start their own deviant denomination? Why did they decide to use blackmail rather than their talents to do so? I suspect they are just lazy and opportunist.
The wicked within the PCUSA have no message,like grasshoppers, they destroy; they do not build up; they divide; they are demon possessed awaiting the Lake of Fire.
re: “why didn’t they leave to start their own”
(non pejorative analysis)
Seems from my reading, Liberal/Progressive engages less institutional trailblazing. They are more at home in an established zion: the swaddling cloths of a temple over a humbler tabernacle. Iow, preferring the larger, older denomination. Conservative/Fundamentalist tends toward the “wagon trail” of a newer, embryonic denomination.
One exception would be the Independent Presbyterian Church in Alabama, which exited (institutionally) stage-left in early, or mid twentieth century.
Why the Presbyterian Church USA will Collapse from its Own Distorted Theology
The Presbyterian Church USA made a collective decision to disavow its own membership. It is not a pretty sight to see. Discounting the possibility of good intentions, this decision was made and it h as made an un-alterable change in the way its believers lived their lives. PCUSA decided to use blackmail as a method of funding their deviant life styles and showed no consideration of its members who have had enough. One wonders why the radical factions who have taken over PCUSA and did not leave to start their own deviant denomination? Why did they decide to use blackmail rather than their talents to do so? I suspect they are just lazy and opportunist.
Rural PCUSA congregations will have none of this. We believe that homosexuality is not part of God’s plan for our society. We believe that PCUSA’s approval of illegal immigration is incorrect. We do not believe that using church funds to pay for abortions is a good thing. We believe that ordained pastors should have standards and not belong to the “if it feels good, just do it” crowd. And we believe that openly gay and lesbian pastors should not set an example for our children. Openly gay folks are an abomination in our eyes.
PCUSA is a failed denomination that has become a cesspool of progressive thought for folks who have no place to go. Nothing in this believer’s experience can equate to this travesty. As Billy Sunday said, it is time for PCUSA to quit its meanness.
George…what you see in PCUSA as in all organized religions, is organization with no spiritual life. Take a good look at the Vatican, more concerned with protocol than the myriad of covered-up sins within. Is it any wonder that in Revelation2 and 3, the Lord Jesus is appealing to individuals to come out of the organized church. The New Testament is filled with warnings that fellowship with Christ will be outside the gates of religion.
The problem is not “organized religion.” The Westminster Confession of Faith rightly said, “The visible church, which is also catholic or universal under the gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion; and of their children: and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ, the house and family of God, out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.” Christ ordained a visible church; and though, “The purest churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error; and some have so degenerated, as to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan. Nevertheless, there shall be always a church on earth, to worship God according to his will.” As a denomination, the PCUSA does not bear one of the essential marks of the church (biblical discipline); but, the problem started in the late 19th century when they compromised their confessional standards and failed to discipline those who undermined them. Read J. Gresham Machen’s “Christianity and Liberalism” written in 1923.
There remain faithful, believing Presbyterian denominations, as part of the visible church against which the gates of hell have not prevailed. Find one, become part of one, make use of the means of grace and grow in grace. We end up with apostate churches because institutional inertia keeps folk in institutions which no longer believe and preach the gospel.
In your Jan/Feb article on PCUSA lobbyist spearheads push on gun laws, the Office of Public Witness director Rev. Dr. J. Herbert Nelson II is quoted as saying, ” … gun violence is making everyone vulnerable to premature death.” A decade ago this same office marched in protest, carrying the PCUSA banner, protesting the Congress trying to make partial birth abortion illegal. Each year around 1.2 million babies come to a “premature death” with the support of our denomination. The church does not even blink. Our government sends $542 million a year to Planned Parenthood which also performs over 334,000 abortions a year. Does our church protest. No. They blast CAT which manufactures heavy equipment used by Israel. It is interesting which violence is chosen to address. Perhaps he should watch the movie “Fatal Beauty” starring “gun control” advocate Whoopi Goldberg and then tell us again about gun violence and who promotes it.
Well said. We must all begin sending letters and making phone calls to the PCUSA about their duplicitous and hypocritical social positions.
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