DETROIT, Mich. – The female ruling elder who presented the commissioner’s resolution that ultimately became a part of the General Assembly action on gun control advocacy said that she lives in “the safest place in America.” Her desire is for everyone to feel as safe where they live as she feels in her home. The problem then is not guns or the ammunition for those guns. The problem is that most people don’t live on highly affluent islands that secure them from interaction with the American populace.
In her speech advocating that the PCUSA put the full force of its advocacy behind efforts to curb gun violence by eliminating private gun ownership she admitted, “We may not be able to get the guns back from the millions of Americans who own them, but we can keep them from getting ammunition.” Her idea was presented as a commissioner’s resolution, item 09-21 and was ultimately incorporated into the language adopted by the assembly in its action on 09-07.
Everyone in America is concerned about reducing gun violence. There is widespread support for criminal background checks, mental health intervention, and keeping guns out of the hands of people who should not have them. The action of the assembly includes encouraging the development of strategies to actively prevent the misuse of guns against innocent people. Totally appropriate. But the assembly did not stop there.
Although it was argued that “this is in no way intended to infringe on the rights of law-abiding gun owners but to reduce gun violence,” the PCUSA’s newly enhanced policy is going to feel like infringement on all responsible gun owners.
Advocacy for legislative change at local, state and national levels now includes:
- opposition to “legislation that exempts gun manufacturers and marketers from legal liability and/or financial accountability for the medical and security costs of predictable gun misuse and availability to criminals, the unstable, and the self-destructive;”
- opposition to “stand your ground and other legislation that may entitle gun owners to shoot before taking alternative measures (such as relying on law enforcement and/or other de-escalation techniques) in perceived defense of persons or property;”
- opposition to “legislation designed to permit and encourage the carrying of weapons in all areas of life, including houses of worship…”
- “advocate that federal and state governments enact legislation to regulate ammunition.”
PCUSA churches as ‘gun-free zones’
The 10,000 churches in the PCUSA are being “strongly encouraged” by their General Assembly to prominently display signs that prohibit carrying guns onto their property.
“The session of each PCUSA congregation” as well as every entity and agency related to the PCUSA, are encouraged “to declare their particular premises and gatherings to be gun-free zones by voting to adopt the following (or similar) policy and recording it in their minutes: ‘Individuals (other than active law-enforcement officers) are prohibited from carrying guns onto this property,’ and to publicize this policy by prominently displaying appropriate signage…”
Further, “individual Presbyterians to bear witness to the gospel value of peacemaking and to build safer and more secure communities” are encouraged by their denomination to advocate for “similar gun-free zone policies in their workplaces, schools, neighborhood businesses and gathering places.”
Little attention was paid to commissioners who raised concerns about the impact the proposed “comprehensive approach” would have on ranchers who use guns to kill snakes and how advertising that Presbyterian churches are “gun-free zones” might make them “soft targets.”
The gun control and ammunition regulation measure passed the assembly by a 547-62 vote.
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This has the people in my church as upset as they are about the AI and Israel/Palestine issues. Living in a rural area of Southern Oregon where church members bring me gifts of venison and elk one might see how the church might view this action. We are called to be good shepherds and a good shepherd is willing to lay down their life. They DON’T lay down and say “eat me.” They actively protect their flock and are willing to die while doing it. We have a biblical antecedent in Nehemiah when the workers are to sleep with their swords and take turns in a defensive manner. Our Session has discussed this matter and has ASKED a few people who have concealed carry permits to make sure that they bring their guns with them. We have event talked about placing a sign that says, “Three people in this building are carrying a loaded gun. Can you guess who they are?” May God have mercy on us all.
So, in addition to limousine liberals we now have gated community liberals telling the stoopid, Bible clinging, gun clinging Amerikans to heck with the Constitution, Momma PCUSA knows best. How about PCUSA as the stoopid, silly church instead of just the silly church. I think The Episcopal Church is already known as the gay church. Reminds me of the liberal I know who lived near the Capitol in D.C. and got pistol whipped, robbed and severely beaten walking home from work. He suffered PTSD so badly that he could no longer walk on the streets in DC, cowered in fear at loud noises, and ended up moving to rural Maine. I never had a chance to ask him if his liberal views on guns had changed.
While I deplore the violence when guns end up in the wrong hands, I don’t believe the GA resolution would impact anyone except citizens who resepct and uphold the law. I grew up on the edge of the Florida swamps, and time was my reflexes were good enough to catch a rattler or cottonmouth with my bare hand, but those days are long gone; rest assured, I will not give up my “snake-gun” any time soon.
Do guns belong in church? As a general rule, certainly not. But then there was my brother-in-law’s experience… His church was actively helping a woman who was trying to escape from her violent and abusive husband, so the angry husband made threats against the pastor and congregation. This was on the heels of a similar church massacre elsewhere in the country, and the risk of a copy-cat crime was genuine. For several weeks, my brother-in-law and several other members with concealed-carry permits were asked to carry their weapons discretely, and to sit during worship near the entrances, to protect the others so they could worship in safety.
My congregation is out on the edge of town, and several of my elders are deer hunters. Hunting is a necessary way to manage the burgeoning population of deer in our part of the country. Further, we provide frozen packs of venison to clients who come to our weekly food pantry. You can imagine the enthusiastic response from my church members to this resolution…NOT.
In a perfect world, no one would need a gun. But in a perfect world, there would be no crime, abuse, violence. No overpopulation or overgrazing, no limits to the food available for wildlife. The children will play with the viper and the coyote. Undoubtedly the GA Commissioners want to act out prophetically what a perfect world would and should look like – you know, “exhibiting the Kingdom of heaven to the world” – but unfortunately, we are not yet in the Kingdom of heaven. Scripture is clear that while force is deplorable, in this still-fallen and imperfect world, the use of force is necessary and sanctioned.
The part of the resolution I find most dangerous is where they oppose “stand your ground” laws, forcing the victims of violent crime to find some other way to “de-escalate” the conflict…as if people can actually think creatively when their lives are in danger. Brain scientists tell us that when someone is at risk, the blood supply to their frontal lobe (the seat of logical and creative thought) is constricted so they cannot think clearly, even if they wanted to. Instead, they must rely on their fight-or-flight instincts. “Fight” may not be a great option, but too often it is the only option available. Should we really try to take that option-in-extremis away?
Just posted this on my church’s Facebook page, so we’ll see how it flies in wild, wonderful (gun owning) West Virginia.
I suppose this group will soon be excommunicated from the 1001 Worshiping Communities initiative. So sad, considering this is an untapped area for potential for future Presbyterian evangelism.
http://www.onethousandone.org/Connect/Community-Landing-Layout.aspx?community=668
I suppose this group will soon be excommunicated from the 1001 Worshiping Communities initiative. So sad, considering this is an untapped area for potential future Presbyterian evangelism.
http://www.onethousandone.org/Connect/Community-Landing-Layout.aspx?community=668
Resolution 9-21: “Ammunition would only be sold by licensed sellers and the buyer would have to show proof that he or she has had a background check.”
How terrible to imagine that people would have to buy their ammunition from licensed sellers. And the horror of suggesting that someone should show evidence of a background check before purchasing a few harmless rounds for their .45 Glock.
Oh the humanity!
Utter foolishness. Those schools that were attacked by lone gunmen were “gun-free zones”.
Detroit as “the safest place in America”? On some Friday nights, you’re probably safer in Beirut.
Why is it so difficult for them to understand that the bad guys simply do not care about the law. That is why they are the bad guys.
Which area do they suppose would be more likely to be attacked by a bad guy with a gun: a fast-food restaurant marked “gun-free zone” or a police station?
“Pardon us, but are you carrying a gun?” YES
“Sorry but you can’t bring it here.” Who says? This sign does not fit the legal posting parameters in the state that I reside in.
“We prefer to provide our patrons with a gun free environment.” Good luck with that. I know that you are PC-USA types but did you ever hear of Satin? There are people actually dominated by him and they will not pay attention to your silly sign.
“Please respect our right to refuse admittance to anyone carrying a firearm.” Did you know that criminals don’t respect your rights to life and property? Only those of us that are law abiding responsible firearm owners pay attention to these signs when they are legally composed and posted and, I might add, avoid those businesses that post them. As the saying goes, when seconds count the police are but minutes away.
This is all just the typical symbolic non- effectual feel good drivel that one has come to expect from the GA of the PCUSA.
As usual, the PCUSA has lost its way, being in the Wilderness dying, and forgetting to ask for repentance, forgiveness, rather, take on useless issues that do nothing but divide. Matt. 28:18-20, Go, Make Disciples as the verse teaches. Establish churches from Bible Studies by the thousands, and if done, this nation will see a revival as has not seen since 1850. You get the message. The PCUSA is no more relevant unfortunately as once this same PCUSA was back in the day.
Why don’t all the idealistic liberals who voted on the gun resolution make Chicago, Detroit and New York City safe then go to Iraq where they have a real problem?
What will PCUSA think of next… Kinda makes me yearn for Pretty Boy Floyd…
Bruce Silver,
EXCELLENT POINTS!! I will be stealing, er, sharing them as frequently as possible! Especially like the responsibility aspect of the shepherd protecting the flock.
Seriously fantastic. Thank you.
There is a complete gun ban in Mexico. So far as I can tell it’s not working.
I am impressed, however, by the recent accomplishments of the PCUSA. They have used the denominational black marker to redact portions of the Holy Scriptures and corrected the portions where the previously omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent God of all creation was in error. It would appear that omniscience and omnipotence are highly overrated as God must not have anticipated the social changes of the later Twentieth and early Twenty-first centuries when he wrote his best seller.
Now it’s time to take on the Constitution of the United States of America. Why not take out that marker and redact Amendment II. That should be child’s play after boxing with God. Add the denomination’s support of killing unborn babies on demand and taking the stance that aborted babies born live should not receive medical care and we really have things going well.
But that’s not enough. Let’s redistribute wealth in the U.S. by confiscating more assets from those that toil endlessly to produce it. And now why not support the murderous Humas against the only regime in the Middle East that Christians, Jews, and Muslims can worship as they wish.
What a tragic and silly bunch the GA of the PCUSA is. Please take down the cross. You really don’t reflect the one who was crucified, died, and rose from the grave.
Have we gotten more civilized in 2000 years? I think not. Luke tells us in chapter 22 how Jesus asks the disciples to sell something and buy a sword. He sent them originally out without protection, but now he wants them to protect themselves. When Jesus was arrested, it was good old saint Peter who whipped out his sword and struck a slave (who I presume was holding Jesus).
If you sheep want to be unprotected, go for it…but…I ain’t gonna’ join ya’!
Remember, the function of a sheep is to be sheared (and eaten)!
Remember, there are Christians who are Presbyterians, and then there are Presbyterians who are not Christians. Just a couple of years ago when we withdrew from the PCUSA, a consistent hallmark of those who spoke against leaving the PCUSA would begin their remarks by boasting about how long they had been Presbyterians and members of this particular church. They never mentioned Christ or Christianity, and none of them ever caught the incongruity.
It was true Christian Presbyterian fervor that divided the colonies from Great Britain, with little thanks to the others. George III called our War of Independence that “Presbyterian Revolution,” and others called it, “that Presbyterian parsons’ rebellion.” The war resulted in putting ink to paper, the God-given right of humans to defend ourselves. Now, there are presbyterians (small ‘p’ intentional) who would destroy what my ancestors have been trying to preserve for about 238 years. We have enough to do defending ourselves from a neo-overreaching government, however, King George III was more honorable in character than our present president.
I have never seen those who are opposed to guns (for whatever reason) put a sin on their front lawns to the effect, “We don’t believe in guns” or “This is a gun-free zone”. What keeps a lot of burglars and thugs out of homes that are occupied is the possibility (near certainty in my county) that the owner has access to a firearm and is quite ready to defend himself, his family and his property. (I use ‘his’ as a non-gender pronoun of course!)
I know there are two men in our congregation who secretly “carry” at any church function. They do not wish to be a witness to a ‘nutto’ breaking in sometime and turning our members into targets. They are willing to protect the church and its members. Many ‘crazed gunman’ shootings have had multiple casualties before the SWAT team, et al, shows up and ends it. More than a few potential mass murders have been stopped quickly by one individual willing to stop the threat.
Bravo!
basically what you’re doing is disarming a country that is in financial ruins and currently at risk of being taken over by outside forces beyond our control.
the idiocy of disarming a large group of people at precisely the time when the country is threatened the most in it’s history speaks volumes to me about who has taken over control of the majority of the PCUSA leaders. the real enemy is within the churches, trying to tear down from within, and not just PCUSA.
Almost all of what came out of the General Assembly this year bothers me. It bothers me to the point I have begun seriously considering leaving the Presbyterian Church. Over the past few years, the more progressive elements have seized control of the General Assembly, but this year the problem became crystal clear. Be it the Authoritative Interpretation of Marriage, the divestment in companies doing business in Israel, or this insanity the prevention of gun violence. one fact cannot be ignored. We are no longer a Church focused on God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. We are now a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party. Every position taken by the General Assembly, this one in particular is a carbon copy of the talking points of the DNC and White House. I do not go to church to be political, I go to worship God. The Church’s position now on becoming active in the assault on the 2nd amendment I find appalling. For the rationale of the decision to reference the narrow interpretation of Justice John Paul Stevens, the most radical left wing member of the SCOTUS in 50 years demonstrates the mindset of those who are now dominating the General Assembly of PCUSA. More telling is the fact almost all of the issues voted on this year came from Presbyteries and Churches located in the North or West coast of the US or what the media calls the blue states. When politics infects the Church the Church ceases to exist. If this is the direction PCUSA intends to go, then the time has come for the Conservative, former members of the Southern Presbyterian Church to cut ties and walk away. If they don’t make the break, I know many current members such as me will do it on our own.